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Discuss Pierburg 1B in the alt.autos.bmw forum at Car Dealer Forums; Yvan wrote: > I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to ...
  1. #1
    Chris Bartram
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Yvan wrote:
    > I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to 1B3 fitted to some
    > VW cars. The difference is in cold start system (on 1B2 it is fully
    > automatic - you do not need to depress throttle pedal before starting the
    > engine).
    >
    > Since this automatic cold start system is not working as it should
    > (TN-starter or waxstat is broken), I was thinking of replacing complete
    > carb with 1B3 from VW.
    >
    > But before I do I have a question. Does 1B3 have vacuum advance port for
    > distributor? I connected vacuum gauge to this port on my carb, and it is
    > reading very low at idle, and then gradually raising to ~500 mmHg at higher
    > revs.
    >
    >
    >

    From my Haynes carb book, the vacuum seems to come from a outlet on the
    manifold, which then tees off to a reservoir and the pull-down unit for
    the 1B3 in VW/Audi applications.

    Given you might have trouble with jet sizes etc, would it not be better
    to get a complete carb from a BMW? There might be other differences that
    you won't find until it's all in bits.

    I have to say, I'm not really up on BMW, but for VW/Audi applications,
    once the Solex/Pierburg is knackered (and unfixable at a reasonable
    cost), then the usual option is to fit a Weber conversion
    (http://www.webcon.co.uk), but it's not cheap, so you might want to try
    a strip/clean rebuild of the Pierburg, or a secondhand one, anyway.

    IME by the time a pierburg hits the scrappy it's either been messed with
    or is worn, so if you do get one, you might want to rebuild it anyway.
    The problem is, the Haynes book doesn't list a 1B2, and the only carbs
    it covers are Pierburg 34/34 2BE fitted to 316 (83-88) & 516 (83-85)
    models. I wonder why yours has a different carb? The 2BE looks pretty
    complex with electronic control.

    I've taken the liberty of cross-posting this to alt.autos.bmw- there
    might be someone there that can help more.

  2. #2
    John Burns
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    > > I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to 1B3 fitted to some

    I had one of those.

    Ditch it, get a nice Weber. More power and similar or better mpg.

    --
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  3. #3
    SteveH
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    John Burns <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    > > > I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to 1B3 fitted to
    > > > some

    >
    > I had one of those.
    >
    > Ditch it, get a nice Weber. More power and similar or better mpg.


    Agreed.

    I flogged my MkI Golf Cabrio because I'd had enough of playing with
    several fucked Pierburgs.
    --
    SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
    www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
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  4. #4
    Chris Bartram
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    SteveH wrote:
    > John Burns <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>>> I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to 1B3 fitted to
    >>>> some

    >> I had one of those.
    >>
    >> Ditch it, get a nice Weber. More power and similar or better mpg.

    >
    > Agreed.
    >
    > I flogged my MkI Golf Cabrio because I'd had enough of playing with
    > several fucked Pierburgs.

    Really, they *can* be OK, *if* they're not knackered and you understand
    what you are doing. The weber's a lot simpler and easier though, and the
    cost of one is often less than paying someone else to fix the Pierburg.

    It's probably pretty knackered though.

  5. #5
    z
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    John Burns <john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote in
    news:45858F96.52F8@unixnerd.demon.co.uk:

    >> > I have Pierburg 1B2 ('87 BMW 316 E30) that is similar to 1B3 fitted
    >> > to some

    >
    > I had one of those.
    >
    > Ditch it, get a nice Weber. More power and similar or better mpg.
    >


    we 2002 (m10) owners have a lot of luck using c.d.iesel's weber jetting
    prescription for the 32/36 :

    http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/62/32/

  6. #6
    Yvan
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:


    | From my Haynes carb book, the vacuum seems to come from a outlet on
    | the manifold, which then tees off to a reservoir and the pull-down
    | unit for the 1B3 in VW/Audi applications.

    Yes, I have Haynes too, but isn't vacuum in inlet manifold more-less
    constant? At least in my BMW negative pressure at vacuum port for
    distributor is very low at idle, and then gradually raising with
    rotation of a throttle butterfly.

    | Given you might have trouble with jet sizes etc, would it not be
    | better to get a complete carb from a BMW? There might be other
    | differences that you won't find until it's all in bits.

    New 1B2 for BMW is listed ~$1000. As for the jets, I could just get
    them of my original one.

    | I have to say, I'm not really up on BMW, but for VW/Audi
    | applications, once the Solex/Pierburg is knackered (and unfixable at
    | a reasonable cost), then the usual option is to fit a Weber
    | conversion (http://www.webcon.co.uk), but it's not cheap, so you
    | might want to try a strip/clean rebuild of the Pierburg, or a
    | secondhand one, anyway.

    I think that TN-starter or waxstat is broken. On 1B3 you have stepped
    cam that control throttle butterfly opening at cold start. On mine 1B2
    there is some sort of tehrmo-expanding device (TN-starter) that mover a
    piston allowing more (or less) air and fuel mixture to go at the opening
    under throttle butterfly. It seems that it is not expanding/shrinking
    as it should (after 20 years :-)

    | IME by the time a pierburg hits the scrappy it's either been messed
    | with or is worn, so if you do get one, you might want to rebuild it
    | anyway. The problem is, the Haynes book doesn't list a 1B2, and the
    | only carbs it covers are Pierburg 34/34 2BE fitted to 316 (83-88) &
    | 516 (83-85) models. I wonder why yours has a different carb? The 2BE
    | looks pretty complex with electronic control.

    Because where I am at the time my father bought this car taxes for the
    import cars were 87% up to 1.6 litre and 250% (yes 250% not a mistake)
    for more than 1.6 litre engine. And since the rest of the world had 1.8
    litre engine we (and Greece) had 1.6 litre.




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  7. #7
    Chris Bartram
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Yvan wrote:
    > Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:
    >
    >
    > | From my Haynes carb book, the vacuum seems to come from a outlet on
    > | the manifold, which then tees off to a reservoir and the pull-down
    > | unit for the 1B3 in VW/Audi applications.
    >
    > Yes, I have Haynes too, but isn't vacuum in inlet manifold more-less
    > constant? At least in my BMW negative pressure at vacuum port for
    > distributor is very low at idle, and then gradually raising with
    > rotation of a throttle butterfly.

    Ah. With you. I'd not though about it, but I suppose you need that for
    vacuum advance? The above is what the diagram shows for VW-audi anyway.
    >
    > | Given you might have trouble with jet sizes etc, would it not be
    > | better to get a complete carb from a BMW? There might be other
    > | differences that you won't find until it's all in bits.
    >
    > New 1B2 for BMW is listed ~$1000. As for the jets, I could just get
    > them of my original one.


    New Pierburgs for VWs were about 600-800GBP a long time ago in the UK.
    That's why people fit Webers!.
    >
    > | I have to say, I'm not really up on BMW, but for VW/Audi
    > | applications, once the Solex/Pierburg is knackered (and unfixable at
    > | a reasonable cost), then the usual option is to fit a Weber
    > | conversion (http://www.webcon.co.uk), but it's not cheap, so you
    > | might want to try a strip/clean rebuild of the Pierburg, or a
    > | secondhand one, anyway.
    >
    > I think that TN-starter or waxstat is broken. On 1B3 you have stepped
    > cam that control throttle butterfly opening at cold start. On mine 1B2
    > there is some sort of tehrmo-expanding device (TN-starter) that mover a
    > piston allowing more (or less) air and fuel mixture to go at the opening
    > under throttle butterfly. It seems that it is not expanding/shrinking
    > as it should (after 20 years :-)


    is that the device that is sometimes called a waxstat? That was what did
    that on the 2e2 carb, and was a common failing.
    >
    > | IME by the time a pierburg hits the scrappy it's either been messed
    > | with or is worn, so if you do get one, you might want to rebuild it
    > | anyway. The problem is, the Haynes book doesn't list a 1B2, and the
    > | only carbs it covers are Pierburg 34/34 2BE fitted to 316 (83-88) &
    > | 516 (83-85) models. I wonder why yours has a different carb? The 2BE
    > | looks pretty complex with electronic control.
    >
    > Because where I am at the time my father bought this car taxes for the
    > import cars were 87% up to 1.6 litre and 250% (yes 250% not a mistake)
    > for more than 1.6 litre engine. And since the rest of the world had 1.8
    > litre engine we (and Greece) had 1.6 litre.
    >
    >
    >
    >

    I guess that means there aren't many BMWs about for spares :-)

    Have you looked on Ebay? Where are you? Could you buy parts over the web?

  8. #8
    Yvan
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Nedavno Chris Bartram pise:

    | Ah. With you. I'd not though about it, but I suppose you need that
    | for vacuum advance? The above is what the diagram shows for VW-audi
    | anyway.

    Yes, I noticed that diagram, but I thought I should ask anyway (it may
    be different setup on different models). For instance interesting bit
    was that "idle boost valve", I may use it for increasing idle speed when
    I turn a/c on (a/c was not factory fitted on my car).


    | New Pierburgs for VWs were about 600-800GBP a long time ago in the
    | UK. That's why people fit Webers!.

    Other than cold start, my 1B2 works great (car has only 35k miles on
    the clock). Fitting a Weber is not that simple. I need to find (or
    probably fabricate) adapter flange between carb and the inlet manifold,
    and another adapter on top of a carb to fit filter box. There is also
    my original question about vacuum advance port for a distributor. And
    will it fit with all adapters without top of the filter box hitting the
    bonnet... All that means a lot of $$$$ :-(


    | > I think that TN-starter or waxstat is broken. On 1B3 you have
    | > stepped cam that control throttle butterfly opening at cold start.
    | > On mine 1B2 there is some sort of tehrmo-expanding device
    | > (TN-starter) that mover a piston allowing more (or less) air and
    | > fuel mixture to go at the opening under throttle butterfly. It
    | > seems that it is not expanding/shrinking as it should (after 20
    | > years :-)
    |
    | is that the device that is sometimes called a waxstat? That was what
    | did that on the 2e2 carb, and was a common failing.

    Yes, I think so. Only this one is a little different. Look here:

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...76&hg=13&fg=05

    It is number 23. Notice a bolt at the left (not the one below where ends
    line connecting to number 23, but the bolt on the waxstat body). When I
    remove that bolt I can insert screwdriver in it and adjust it a bit. I
    did that, and now the car is drivable on LPG. This waxstat controls
    (via piston it moves) amount of air going into inlet manifold, but also
    amount of fuel (complex setup). In addition amount of fuel is controlled
    with thermo-actuator (number 5 in the photo). So I guess both these
    actuators need replacing.

    1B3 seems not so complicated, and I can get one for 20EUR at a local
    wrecks, and I think ~30EUR for a rebuild. But that was just an idea, so
    I asked for vacuum advance port.


    | I guess that means there aren't many BMWs about for spares :-)
    |
    | Have you looked on Ebay? Where are you? Could you buy parts over the
    | web?


    You are right. I can find another Pierburg (two barrel) from old 318 in
    poor state, that needs re-jetting, than I also need anther flange,
    filter box...

    Yes I can buy parts over the web, but usually shipping costs for Serbia
    are unreasonable high, or they will not ship at all.



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  9. #9
    Yvan
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Nedavno z pise:

    | we 2002 (m10) owners have a lot of luck using c.d.iesel's weber
    | jetting prescription for the 32/36 :
    |
    | http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/62/32/


    That would be for 2002 (2 litre) M10. I have 1.6 litre M10.



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  10. #10
    z
    Guest

    Default Re: Pierburg 1B

    Yvan <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:20061218071438.61d53ab2@localhost:

    > Nedavno z pise:
    >
    >| we 2002 (m10) owners have a lot of luck using c.d.iesel's weber
    >| jetting prescription for the 32/36 :
    >|
    >| http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/62/32/
    >
    >
    > That would be for 2002 (2 litre) M10. I have 1.6 litre M10.


    aye and you're not on a weber.. but in the interest of all those folk out
    there in usenet o'l CD's jetting prescription might help some body down
    the line. Keep in mind every thing we type here and now is archived. Any
    bit of good information well indexed is a problem solved.

    hope you do well with your ride bro! Sorry i'm not a carb guru with your
    combination

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