A few weeks ago, I had the following work done on my 2002 Dodge
Grand
Caravan: new tires, a front end alignment, brake inspection, and a
transmission fliud flush and fill.

When I left the service center, I noticed a problem that had not been
there before. After bringing up the speed to at least 35-40 mph and
then slowing down, there was a very noticable pull/grab/minor jolt
when slowing to about 25-30mph. At first, I thought it was a brake
problem and assumed something went wrong during the brake inspection,
but when I had the front and rear brakes done at a different shop two
days later, the problem persisted.


I strongly suspect a transmission problem (4 -speed automatic). When
the problem occurs right around 1000 rpm, the tach jumps about 2-3
hundred rpm. It feels more like a slip than a grab. Also, the problem
only occurs in D.It will not happen when driving in 3. Up and down
shifting is completely normal at all point with the exception of what
I described. I assume the problem is occuring when downshifting from
4
to 3.


I took it back to the original mechanic. He confirmed that the
transmission fluid was filled with fresh fluid. He took it for a test
drive, confirmed the problem, but couldn't figure out a cause.

He consulted with some transmission guys who suggested clearing the
computer by disconnecting the battery. I tried it a few minutes ago
and it didn't work, at least not on the first test drive.

I have 109,000 miles on the van. I had the transmission flushed back
at 58,000 without a problem.

What could have happened to cause this? What possible mistakes could
have been made that would result in this problem?


Thanks in advance for your opinions.


Rob

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT), tdzik@hotmail.com wrote:

>A few weeks ago, I had the following work done on my 2002 Dodge
>Grand
>Caravan: new tires, a front end alignment, brake inspection, and a
>transmission fliud flush and fill.
>
>When I left the service center, I noticed a problem that had not been
>there before. After bringing up the speed to at least 35-40 mph and
>then slowing down, there was a very noticable pull/grab/minor jolt
>when slowing to about 25-30mph. At first, I thought it was a brake
>problem and assumed something went wrong during the brake inspection,
>but when I had the front and rear brakes done at a different shop two
>days later, the problem persisted.
>
>
>I strongly suspect a transmission problem (4 -speed automatic). When
>the problem occurs right around 1000 rpm, the tach jumps about 2-3
>hundred rpm. It feels more like a slip than a grab. Also, the problem
>only occurs in D.It will not happen when driving in 3. Up and down
>shifting is completely normal at all point with the exception of what
>I described. I assume the problem is occuring when downshifting from
>4
>to 3.

It's the 4-3 downshift, at 28 mph. May or may not set a fault
code. My '02 has done this three times, not necessarily at fluid
change time. The only remedy seems to be to flash the software in the
powertrain control module.
The first time, the dealer flashed the PCM and sent me on my
way. It was OK for about 15.000 miles.
By the second time it happened, I had discovered that there's
a tech bulletin about this. Service Bulletin 21-004-05 details the
condition and the fix. They say the front pump needs to be replaced.
This was done on my van, under warranty, and it was OK for about
25,000 miles. Then one day it happened again, for no apparent reason.
Out of warranty, I had the PCM flashed again by a dealer, and that
"cured" it for the third time. The service manager said I should
bring the car back to him "some time when he could spend some more
time with it." In other words, they don't really know what causes it.
The likely remedy is to pay a dealer to update the PCM. Can't
be done by most independent shops, because they don't have the files,
and most aftermarket scan tools apparently don't have the capability.
Seems like the last time cost me about a $70 minimum, to hook up the
machine.
Damned electronic transmissions.

the fly <tsetse51@swbell.net> wrote in
news:gr6s345vpdevklojib28hr5s0n9bqff69j@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:44:38 -0700 (PDT), tdzik@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>A few weeks ago, I had the following work done on my 2002 Dodge
>>Grand
>>Caravan: new tires, a front end alignment, brake inspection, and a
>>transmission fliud flush and fill.
>>
>>When I left the service center, I noticed a problem that had not been
>>there before. After bringing up the speed to at least 35-40 mph and
>>then slowing down, there was a very noticable pull/grab/minor jolt
>>when slowing to about 25-30mph. At first, I thought it was a brake
>>problem and assumed something went wrong during the brake inspection,
>>but when I had the front and rear brakes done at a different shop two
>>days later, the problem persisted.
>>
>>
>>I strongly suspect a transmission problem (4 -speed automatic). When
>>the problem occurs right around 1000 rpm, the tach jumps about 2-3
>>hundred rpm. It feels more like a slip than a grab. Also, the problem
>>only occurs in D.It will not happen when driving in 3. Up and down
>>shifting is completely normal at all point with the exception of what
>>I described. I assume the problem is occuring when downshifting from
>>4
>>to 3.
>
> It's the 4-3 downshift, at 28 mph. May or may not set a fault
> code. My '02 has done this three times, not necessarily at fluid
> change time. The only remedy seems to be to flash the software in the
> powertrain control module.
> The first time, the dealer flashed the PCM and sent me on my
> way. It was OK for about 15.000 miles.
> By the second time it happened, I had discovered that there's
> a tech bulletin about this. Service Bulletin 21-004-05 details the
> condition and the fix. They say the front pump needs to be replaced.
> This was done on my van, under warranty, and it was OK for about
> 25,000 miles. Then one day it happened again, for no apparent reason.
> Out of warranty, I had the PCM flashed again by a dealer, and that
> "cured" it for the third time. The service manager said I should
> bring the car back to him "some time when he could spend some more
> time with it." In other words, they don't really know what causes it.
> The likely remedy is to pay a dealer to update the PCM. Can't
> be done by most independent shops, because they don't have the files,
> and most aftermarket scan tools apparently don't have the capability.
> Seems like the last time cost me about a $70 minimum, to hook up the
> machine.
> Damned electronic transmissions.
>

My 2002 GC ES with 3.8L now has about 103k on it.
I have had the 4-3 downshift problem recurring for the entire lifetime
(since about 12k miles and beyond). I did manage to get the tranny torn
down twice under maintenance - replaced burnt torque converters once and
some other parts the second (~ 80k). But when I picked up the van that
time it went into limp home mode. Grrr...
Having the dealer "flash" the PCM "cures" it. But they haven't changed
the actual files they flash for a few years (see the TSB above). If you
don't want to spend the ~$70 for a dealer to flash, you can disconnect
the battery OVERNIGHT.
The PCM should revert to it's original "learning mode".
If not then go back to the dealer.

This is only hearsay and does reflect my experience - though more
knowledgable folk (MaxPower etc) may have more accurate or better ideas.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:06:55 +0000 (UTC), Steph
<CUT_skipatrol@hotmail.com_CUT> wrote:
>>
>
>My 2002 GC ES with 3.8L now has about 103k on it.
>I have had the 4-3 downshift problem recurring for the entire lifetime
>(since about 12k miles and beyond). I did manage to get the tranny torn
>down twice under maintenance - replaced burnt torque converters once and
>some other parts the second (~ 80k). But when I picked up the van that
>time it went into limp home mode. Grrr...
>Having the dealer "flash" the PCM "cures" it. But they haven't changed
>the actual files they flash for a few years (see the TSB above). If you
>don't want to spend the ~$70 for a dealer to flash, you can disconnect
>the battery OVERNIGHT.
>The PCM should revert to it's original "learning mode".
>If not then go back to the dealer.
>
>This is only hearsay and does reflect my experience - though more
>knowledgable folk (MaxPower etc) may have more accurate or better ideas.

If disconnecting the battery actually works, that would be
fine with me. I haven't been so lucky, nor have a couple of other
owners I know. Flashing the software seems to be the only remedy.
I'd give a lot, to have a good late 60's-early 70's
hydraulically-controlled transmission available to me in a new car.
The advent of electronics has been good for engine management, but
utter crap for powertrain control.

the fly <tsetse51@swbell.net> wrote in
news:v8qu34ds1hjmomrg8t58c0ovq23oe326u0@4ax.com:

>
> If disconnecting the battery actually works, that would be
> fine with me. I haven't been so lucky, nor have a couple of other
> owners I know. Flashing the software seems to be the only remedy.
> I'd give a lot, to have a good late 60's-early 70's
> hydraulically-controlled transmission available to me in a new car.
> The advent of electronics has been good for engine management, but
> utter crap for powertrain control.
>

Found an interesting thread on tranny problems
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t196775.html

And yeah, it hurt for me to give up my 1978 E-250 with a 460cu engine.
All you needed for repairs was a large screwdriver, hammer, duct tape and
some time to let the carb cool down after getting vapor locked.

Anyway search google on flashing (PCM, TCM) caravan

> [snip] I'd give a lot, to have a good late 60's-early 70's
> hydraulically-controlled transmission available to me in a new car.
> The advent of electronics has been good for engine management, but
> utter crap for powertrain control.

I do understand your perspective about the simplicity of
hydro-mechanical transmissions, but still must disagree. Electronic
control is superior when properly designed because it can compensate for
changes in pressure, temperature, and system response due to wear.

To cut costs manufacturers can simplify the system (automatic transaxle
in this case) based upon design goals, system capabilities, and observed
characteristics of production units. Changing ANY parameter from the
base system (using non-OEM parts or fluids) will cause a change in
performance, good or bad.

Having said all that: Did they use ONLY Chrysler approved ATF? Having
problems after transmission service tends to indicate that the fluid is
the problem. Putting the TCM into learn mode might help it compensate
for this, but the real solution is to get the correct fluid in the
transmission. It may take multiple fluid changes to get it working
right, but it will get better after each one.

Maybe I'm full of crap; maybe I'm right. Don't flame me, I'm just trying
to help. Good luck!

--
Gyz

Everyone thinks they know how to drive.
Everyone thinks they are good drivers.

On May 28, 8:44*pm, td...@hotmail.com wrote:
> A few weeks ago, I had *the following work done on my 2002 Dodge
> Grand
> Caravan: new tires, a front end alignment, brake inspection, and a
> transmission fliud flush and fill.
>
> When I left the service center, I noticed a problem that had not been
> there before. After bringing up the speed to at least 35-40 mph and
> then slowing down, there was a very noticable pull/grab/minor jolt
> when slowing to about 25-30mph. At first, I thought it was a brake
> problem and assumed something went wrong during the brake inspection,
> but when I had the front and rear brakes done at a different shop two
> days later, the problem persisted.
>
> I strongly suspect a transmission problem (4 -speed automatic). *When
> the problem occurs right around 1000 rpm, the tach jumps about 2-3
> hundred rpm. It feels more like a slip than a grab. Also, the problem
> only occurs in D.It will not happen when driving in 3. Up and down
> shifting is completely normal at all point with the exception of what
> I described. I assume the problem is occuring when downshifting from
> 4
> to 3.
>
> I took it back to the original mechanic. He confirmed that the
> transmission fluid was filled with fresh fluid. He took it for a test
> drive, confirmed the problem, but couldn't figure out a cause.
>
> He consulted with some transmission guys who suggested clearing the
> computer by disconnecting the battery. I tried it a few minutes ago
> and it didn't work, at least not on the first test drive.
>
> I have 109,000 miles on the van. I had the transmission flushed back
> at 58,000 without a problem.
>
> What could have happened to cause this? What possible mistakes could
> have been made that would result in this problem?
>
> Thanks in advance for your opinions.
>
> Rob

Hey Rob, I have a 2003 dodge caravan grand with 3.8 engine. I changed
the tranmission fluid and filters myself. I don't mind doing things
mysefl to save money. Anyway just after that I had the same issue.
when I drove the van it was fine. When I was coming to a stop around
30mph the transmission would jump more like a thud. I went to an old
timer that has been working on transmission for over 50 years and he
hooked the van up to a computer and reset the timing because of the
new fliud that was in there. The computer was changing the clutch
back because of the fluid change. The computer rembered the old fluid
and set it. In the manual there is a peice that says you might need
to service after a fluid change. Anyway it works fine after he
realigned the clutches by the handheld computer. Thanks Warren

Junk
Bought a Caravan 2000 in great shape cert ice cold air after 10 k blew head gasket,just a note my mechanic said watch coolant level as if it gets to low the sensor may not read as well as it will be steem not water, anyway, got it fixxed ran great, till i i changed my fluid in the tranny, then within a week blew the tranny, got it repaired blew again in 100 miles, lucky my buddy who did the job did it again for me for free,
( his brother started Mr Transmission so you would think he knows what hes doing)
now if i totally baby it like a granny it shifts great but if i bear down on the gas going into 3rd it jerks violently, I have put 2000 k on it but am worried as im away from home for a while, what the f.... is up with thier junk..., if i didnt get it so cheap would have never bought a CHRYSLER,
GMC is king
I have drove a Saturn SL1 for 3 years , put 100 km paid 300 bucks for it and have mabey put 500 bucks into it , cheap n easy to fix ,has slamed into reverse since i bought it ,no prob ,and if it had AC would still be driving it ....GREAT CAR .. take a lesson Chrysler
WHAT SHOULD I DO TO FIX THIS Mini JUNK or should i just Granny it around
JUNK JUNK BEWARE , to all who own a Chrysler Minivan, put a sigh in you back window like me to warn people that these vans are JUNK
Mabey then these people will stop robbing from our families, what happened to pride in what you do, being the best,being responsible
(able to re-spond) Useless ...next time you dealers or one of you useless CEO can sit on the side of the road for 3 hours with my 2 yr old daughter waiting for a tow because you cant do your job and make a decent vehicle JUNK JUNK JUNK
I vote with my dollars and i dont vote for your JUNKget the message JUNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
My sign reads "Chrysler makes a horrible vehicle" in my opinion

I have a 2002 Dodge Caravan with 145K miles on it, I do regular oil changes and keep up with the maintenance on it. Last week, had the radiator replaced, and when we went to pick it up, they told me the transmission was gone.. What do you mean gone??!! I just brought it in here because the radiator needed replaced. So I took it to an actual transmission place and they said the same thing. The problem I have with it is, when your transmission is going, you know it.. It slips when it shifts gears etc. I had an older van that did that. So I don't known if this is a common problem for these models or what..

At 87,000 I felt a large "bump" when the van was downshifting at around 28 mph. It was to the point the entire van shook and jerked. I brought it to my local dealer and for $175 they did a diagnositic, flashed the computer and it runs as good as new now. It's crazy it came out of nowhere and just reflashing the computer fixd it (I'm not complaining as my 94 windstar had a similar issue and it was an $1800 fix!). Just figured I'd throw my two cents in as I was anticipating the worst and the dealer had an easy fix.