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Discuss Hidden Codes? in the alt.autos.ford forum at Car Dealer Forums; More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to ...
  1. #1
    John
    Guest

    Default Hidden Codes?

    More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to
    let Ford have at my Taurus, or just drive it to the damn scrap yard
    and get this over with.

    I have an OBD1 scanner (93 taurus) and in the past, it has given me a
    few codes that have helped with problems so I know it works, and I
    guess I can say that I know how to run the tests. At the moment, with
    my high engine speed problem, it shows no codes at all.

    All I have to go on with this statement, is that it is what folks have
    told me, and that statement is that Ford dealer scanners can access
    codes that are not revealed by the $100 scanner that I am using. I
    have heard yes and no, but some are adamant that they can retrieve
    information that I cannot.

    As it is, I have no codes to go on. If Ford can dig out more, and
    useful ones, then maybe I have to bite the bullet, but if I am going
    to pay them $100 just to read the computer and come up with no codes,
    that doesn't seem like the right way to go.

    Anyone have any insight or comments? Are there "hidden codes" in the
    OBD1 computer that only Ford can view?

    Thanks,

    John




    › See More: Hidden Codes?

  2. #2
    john
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?

    On Nov 3, 1:31 pm, John <ews...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to
    > let Ford have at my Taurus, or just drive it to the damn scrap yard
    > and get this over with.
    >
    > I have an OBD1 scanner (93 taurus) and in the past, it has given me a
    > few codes that have helped with problems so I know it works, and I
    > guess I can say that I know how to run the tests. At the moment, with
    > my high engine speed problem, it shows no codes at all.
    >
    > All I have to go on with this statement, is that it is what folks have
    > told me, and that statement is that Ford dealer scanners can access
    > codes that are not revealed by the $100 scanner that I am using. I
    > have heard yes and no, but some are adamant that they can retrieve
    > information that I cannot.
    >
    > As it is, I have no codes to go on. If Ford can dig out more, and
    > useful ones, then maybe I have to bite the bullet, but if I am going
    > to pay them $100 just to read the computer and come up with no codes,
    > that doesn't seem like the right way to go.
    >
    > Anyone have any insight or comments? Are there "hidden codes" in the
    > OBD1 computer that only Ford can view?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > John



    I had an idle problem with a 95 5.8 liter. It is also OBD 1. I
    couldn't find any codes, and I finally took it to a Ford dealer. The
    guy spent 45 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and I went back
    into the service bay with him. He couldn't find any codes either. He
    told me all he could do was hook it up to a "box" that would be in
    between the EEC and all the sensors. That way he could check each
    sensor, and decide if it was a sensor, a short somewhere, or the EEC.
    He wanted me to leave it for at least 2 days. The open-ended bill
    would start at $300. As my vehicle was driveable, I didn't take him
    up on the offer.

    Good luck,
    Another John


  3. #3
    Big Al
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?


    "john" <johnoceanusacr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1194127323.540001.279090@o80g2000hse.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Nov 3, 1:31 pm, John <ews...@gmail.com> wrote:
    >> More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to
    >> let Ford have at my Taurus, or just drive it to the damn scrap yard
    >> and get this over with.
    >>
    >> I have an OBD1 scanner (93 taurus) and in the past, it has given me a
    >> few codes that have helped with problems so I know it works, and I
    >> guess I can say that I know how to run the tests. At the moment, with
    >> my high engine speed problem, it shows no codes at all.
    >>
    >> All I have to go on with this statement, is that it is what folks have
    >> told me, and that statement is that Ford dealer scanners can access
    >> codes that are not revealed by the $100 scanner that I am using. I
    >> have heard yes and no, but some are adamant that they can retrieve
    >> information that I cannot.
    >>
    >> As it is, I have no codes to go on. If Ford can dig out more, and
    >> useful ones, then maybe I have to bite the bullet, but if I am going
    >> to pay them $100 just to read the computer and come up with no codes,
    >> that doesn't seem like the right way to go.
    >>
    >> Anyone have any insight or comments? Are there "hidden codes" in the
    >> OBD1 computer that only Ford can view?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> John

    >
    >
    > I had an idle problem with a 95 5.8 liter. It is also OBD 1. I
    > couldn't find any codes, and I finally took it to a Ford dealer. The
    > guy spent 45 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and I went back
    > into the service bay with him. He couldn't find any codes either. He
    > told me all he could do was hook it up to a "box" that would be in
    > between the EEC and all the sensors. That way he could check each
    > sensor, and decide if it was a sensor, a short somewhere, or the EEC.
    > He wanted me to leave it for at least 2 days. The open-ended bill
    > would start at $300. As my vehicle was driveable, I didn't take him
    > up on the offer.
    >
    > Good luck,
    > Another John
    >


    My OTC scanner will read out the sensors, four at a time, in real time. It
    will also emulate the Ford Star tester. Guess a lot depends on what scanner
    you have.

    Al



  4. #4
    ScottM
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?


    "John" <ewsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1194125515.631539.17880@19g2000hsx.googlegrou ps.com...
    > More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to
    > let Ford have at my Taurus, or just drive it to the damn scrap yard
    > and get this over with.
    >
    > I have an OBD1 scanner (93 taurus) and in the past, it has given me a
    > few codes that have helped with problems so I know it works, and I
    > guess I can say that I know how to run the tests. At the moment, with
    > my high engine speed problem, it shows no codes at all.
    >
    > All I have to go on with this statement, is that it is what folks have
    > told me, and that statement is that Ford dealer scanners can access
    > codes that are not revealed by the $100 scanner that I am using. I
    > have heard yes and no, but some are adamant that they can retrieve
    > information that I cannot.
    >
    > As it is, I have no codes to go on. If Ford can dig out more, and
    > useful ones, then maybe I have to bite the bullet, but if I am going
    > to pay them $100 just to read the computer and come up with no codes,
    > that doesn't seem like the right way to go.
    >
    > Anyone have any insight or comments? Are there "hidden codes" in the
    > OBD1 computer that only Ford can view?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > John
    >



    There is not going to be any "hiddin" codes on your 93. Some scanners can
    see data and do tests that others cant.
    93 is new enough for a good scanner to see data. Do you have a scanner or
    "code reader" ? I guess it could be possible for a cheap code reader to not
    work correctly or maybe not see memory codes.....Is it a high idle problem?
    You have replaced the IAC? No vacuum leaks? Has anyone messed with the
    minimum air adjustment? Is it possible that the computer thinks its in drive
    or reverse when it isn't? Maybe it thinks the AC is on? You should get a
    code for that one though. Does your scanner tell you to cycle the AC on and
    off? Is the timing adjustable? Does it even have a distributor? Don't forget
    you could have bought a bad IAC, wouldn't be the first time. Maybe the
    computer thinks its cold when it isn't? That should give a code too because
    it should be warmed up before the test. If all else fails I would try to set
    the minimum air lower(or higher if its a slow idle problem) (and remember
    how many turns you did so you can put it back where it was) just to try
    it...Can you see the data for the IAC on your scanner? If so you should be
    able to tell if the computer is trying to slow the idle down but it won't,
    or the computer is holding it high for some reason (like it thinks the
    engine is cold, thinks its in gear when it isn't, thinks the AC is on when
    it's not, that kind of thing) It should give you a code for not being able
    to controll the idle if there is a problem. Does it idle up and down when
    you do the KOER test? It should. It could be a bad computer too. You could
    also check the TPS, you should get a code for that but....If its supossed to
    be like .6 volts at idle, then make sure it is. If I think of anything else
    I'll post it. Good luck.




  5. #5
    ScottM
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?


    >
    > I had an idle problem with a 95 5.8 liter. It is also OBD 1. I
    > couldn't find any codes, and I finally took it to a Ford dealer. The
    > guy spent 45 minutes trying to diagnose the problem, and I went back
    > into the service bay with him. He couldn't find any codes either. He
    > told me all he could do was hook it up to a "box" that would be in
    > between the EEC and all the sensors. That way he could check each
    > sensor, and decide if it was a sensor, a short somewhere, or the EEC.
    > He wanted me to leave it for at least 2 days. The open-ended bill
    > would start at $300. As my vehicle was driveable, I didn't take him
    > up on the offer.



    That would be a "breakout box"

    you connect it between the car and the computer. It lets you easiely probe
    all the computer wires to check resistance, voltage, ect.

    A Ford sevice manual will quite often say "connect breakout box" somewhere
    in the diagnostics.
    Just so you know, with the service manual, basic electrical knowlege, and
    following the book exactly you CAN/WILL fix it.

    It is possible to not have a breakout box when it asks for it but you have
    to probe wires and figure out which wire is which.

    Also, a visual check is always asked for first. Don't overlook the obvious
    like a broken vacuum line, blown fuse, stuck throttle cable.....



  6. #6
    John
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?

    On Nov 3, 3:02 pm, john <johnoceanus...@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > He wanted me to leave it for at least 2 days. The open-ended bill
    > would start at $300. As my vehicle was driveable, I didn't take him
    > up on the offer.


    Ouch! That is pretty much the way I expect to be treated if I ask them
    to fix my problem. They have a lot of nerve, but then, the way I see
    it, they don't want to do these kinds of jobs, and prefer the 'by the
    book' problems where its easier, and they can make plenty of margin on
    their work.

    Thanks, and I hope you are able to figure out your issues yourself.

    John


  7. #7
    John
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?


    > My OTC scanner will read out the sensors, four at a time, in real time. It
    > will also emulate the Ford Star tester. Guess a lot depends on what scanner
    > you have.
    >


    What kind of scanner do you have, and is it available, or some kind of
    special fordo device?

    I only have the code reader, that does KoffEngineOff and KonEngineon
    tests, plus clearing existing codes.

    Given how much it would cost to leave this up to Ford, a good scanner
    might be a better investment for long term.

    Thanks,

    John



  8. #8
    Jim Warman
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?

    I've started out to reply to this train of thought several times.....
    nothing comes out sounding quite right.....

    Bottom line.... I fix these kinds of things as part of my job. I am blessed
    with a very good understanding of electricity and practice, training and
    experience have helped hone my skills.... When others can't fix an
    electrical concern, they bring it to the overpriced asshole... The sad truth
    is that they could have saved a lot of money, a lot of time and a lot of
    frustration if they'd just brought it to the overpriced asshole first.

    Automotive electrical will separate the men from the boys... just having the
    tools and manuals (that do cost a lot of money) does not gaurranty that
    there is anyone available that knows how to use them to their best
    advantage....



  9. #9
    SC Tom
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?


    > My idle issue seems unique, in that it is normal when driving low
    > speed around town, but out on the road, going 50, when come to a stop,
    > the engine is idling way too high, making it hard to even get it to
    > stop. Shut off the engine and restart it, and its all back to okay,
    > till the next time I drive 40-50mph......
    >
    > That's my story :-)
    >
    > Thanks Scott. If you know anything more technical, or of a place that
    > might have numbers and details, I would sure like to hear about them.
    >
    > John
    >
    >


    When the idle is high like that, if you reach your toe under the accelerator
    pedal and pull up, does the idle drop? I had a similar problem on my '89
    Probe, and found the problem was with the linkage for my speed control
    (cruise control). After all the electronic and electrical tests I did, it
    turned out to be mechanical.

    SC Tom



  10. #10
    Paul of Dayton
    Guest

    Default Re: Hidden Codes?

    I am thinking a '93 will be EEC-IV - not OBD... my '93 Cougar is, anyway.
    Except for being able to read codes while driving, I don't think the dealer
    unit will do better than what you have. I'd look for mechanical stuff,
    first. Stuck linkages or a cracked vacuum line... the EGR can get junk in
    it after a highway drive and cause odd stuff. A vacuum leak can make a car
    do very strange things... Also, you might have a gunked up throttle plate
    or linkage. It wouldn't hurt to clean the IAC valve... they are supposed to
    be closed while driving and open at idle to provide enough air for idle.
    Might be opening too much or sticking...

    Hope this is helpful...

    PoD


    "John" <ewsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1194125515.631539.17880@19g2000hsx.googlegrou ps.com...
    > More of a generic question, but it would help me decide if I want to
    > let Ford have at my Taurus, or just drive it to the damn scrap yard
    > and get this over with.
    >
    > I have an OBD1 scanner (93 taurus) and in the past, it has given me a
    > few codes that have helped with problems so I know it works, and I
    > guess I can say that I know how to run the tests. At the moment, with
    > my high engine speed problem, it shows no codes at all.
    >
    > All I have to go on with this statement, is that it is what folks have
    > told me, and that statement is that Ford dealer scanners can access
    > codes that are not revealed by the $100 scanner that I am using. I
    > have heard yes and no, but some are adamant that they can retrieve
    > information that I cannot.
    >
    > As it is, I have no codes to go on. If Ford can dig out more, and
    > useful ones, then maybe I have to bite the bullet, but if I am going
    > to pay them $100 just to read the computer and come up with no codes,
    > that doesn't seem like the right way to go.
    >
    > Anyone have any insight or comments? Are there "hidden codes" in the
    > OBD1 computer that only Ford can view?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > John
    >




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