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Discuss Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap." in the alt.autos.gm forum at Car Dealer Forums; Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new cap, ...
  1. #1
    frank1492
    Guest

    Default Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    (b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    recognize the correction in the past.
    Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    Frank
    P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    warmed up when the test was done?

  2. #2
    Mike Marlow
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."


    "frank1492" <frank1492@verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:87dos3lv0fim1n835h4futddlv4b26jir8@4ax.com...
    > Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    > cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    > time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    > should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    > (b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.


    How many times has the car been started in the 250 miles that you've driven
    it? The monitors require a specific number of engine cycles, besides the
    mileage requirement.

    --

    -Mike-
    mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net



  3. #3
    Steve W.
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "CheckGas Cap."

    frank1492 wrote:
    > Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    > cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    > time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    > should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    > (b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    > I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    > then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    > Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    > inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    > ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    > I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    > unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    > computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    > particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    > recognize the correction in the past.
    > Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    > I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    > eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    > I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    > Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    > Frank
    > P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    > warmed up when the test was done?


    The problem is NOT the gas cap. You probably have a small leak in the
    evap. system. The way the system works is thus:

    When you start the vehicle and it hits a certain speed (most are between
    10-15mph) the computer triggers a self test of the evaporative emissions
    system. The test starts by the computer closing a solenoid valve in the
    vapor line from the tank. Then it opens another solenoid valve on the
    intake manifold. The computer monitors a sensor in the tank and uses a
    baseline setting to measure how long it takes for a set amount of vacuum
    to build in the fuel tank. Then it closes that solenoid and measures how
    fast that level drops. If it is unable to draw the correct vacuum OR the
    vacuum drops to fast it will trigger the "gas cap light". It also sets a
    code in the computer that says "evap. system leak"

    This test has a set list of items that stop the computer from running
    the test.
    If the gas tank is over 3/4 tank OR under 1/4 tank.
    If the ambient temperature and engine temperature are more than 15
    degrees different. (Warm engine /cold day)
    Throttle position open more than 20%

    The common problem I have found is the solenoid valve that vents the
    tank gets dirty and sticks. This stops the vacuum from building and sets
    off the light. Or the one on the engine doesn't seal properly and the
    vacuum drops to fast.

    I have also seen rusted out vapor lines set the code as well.

    A decent mechanic can hook a tester to the fuel fill neck and run a few
    tests and see where the problem is.

    Now on the chance that the new cap actually did fix the problem you also
    need to perform a certain number of drive cycles to allow ALL the tests
    to run. If you drove it those 250 miles and only shut it off once or not
    at all you have a few more cycles to go. Start it and drive it 10 miles
    or so. Shut it off and let it cool down. (visit a friend or bar or store
    or mall) Start it up and drive home. Do this a couple more times and
    then on the day of the test take it on a LONGER drive and make sure it
    is fully warmed up before you take it in for the test.

    --
    Steve W.
    Near Cooperstown, New York

  4. #4
    William H. Bowen
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    frank1492 <frank1492@verizon.net> wrote:

    >Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    >cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    >time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    >should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    >(b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    > I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    >then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    >Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    >inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    >ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    >I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    >unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    >computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    >particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    >recognize the correction in the past.
    > Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    >I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    >eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    >I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    > Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    > Frank
    > P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    >warmed up when the test was done?


    Frank,

    You've run into one of the ugly secrets of OBD II (On Board
    Diagnostics Version 2) called "Monitors". The reason the PCM is
    showing "Not Ready" is one or more of the on-board tests the PCM needs
    to run to set various monitors has not been completed.

    Driving the car under various operating conditions (stop and go,
    highway, etc.) will help this process along. Some of the monitors only
    set up during various operating conditions.

    How did the mechanic reset the computer - by disconnecting the battery
    or did he use a scanner and reset the specific DTC from the gas cap?
    If at all possible with an OBDII car it is better to use a scanner and
    reset the specific DTC VS resetting the whole PCM, which also resets
    ALL the monitors to the "not set up" state.

    Regards,
    Bill Bowen
    Sacramento, CA

  5. #5
    frank1492
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    Thank Mike. It has been through quite a few cycles. I would bet
    it has gone through a dozen or so start-stop cycles. See addl
    comments.



    On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:43:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
    <mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net> wrote:

    >
    >"frank1492" <frank1492@verizon.net> wrote in message
    >news:87dos3lv0fim1n835h4futddlv4b26jir8@4ax.com.. .
    >> Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    >> cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    >> time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    >> should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    >> (b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.

    >
    >How many times has the car been started in the 250 miles that you've driven
    >it? The monitors require a specific number of engine cycles, besides the
    >mileage requirement.



  6. #6
    frank1492
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    Thank you Steve for your very complete reply explaining
    how the system works.
    I believe I have been through around a dozen or so
    start-stop cycles in two major trips.
    Before I have someone go after other possible sources
    of a leak in the evap system, I think it would make sense to pursue
    the possibility that it was the cap. Since the display is clear at the
    moment, I need to see if the warning comes back.
    But let's suppose I follow your advice and run the car a few more
    5-10 mile cycles, and the warning doesn't come back. And then the
    station still tells me "it's still to early," what would you do then?
    Do I keep trying or have the car looked at? Remember I have 60 days.
    What is also a problem is that I much prefer to drive my Murano. The
    DeVille is supposed to be a "special occasion" car so i'd like to get
    this cleared up ASAP.
    Incidentally I called the station and asked them if they thought
    the car might have been insufficiently warmed up when I brought
    it in. (It was cold overnight, 5 minutes to the station, then 5-10
    minutes waiting in the car with the engine running.) They said it
    wasn't likely as it was a fairly new car.
    Frank








    On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:23:34 -0500, "Steve W." <csr684NOT@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >frank1492 wrote:
    >> Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    >> cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    >> time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    >> should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    >> (b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    >> I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    >> then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    >> Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    >> inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    >> ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    >> I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    >> unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    >> computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    >> particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    >> recognize the correction in the past.
    >> Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    >> I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    >> eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    >> I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    >> Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    >> Frank
    >> P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    >> warmed up when the test was done?

    >
    >The problem is NOT the gas cap. You probably have a small leak in the
    >evap. system. The way the system works is thus:
    >
    >When you start the vehicle and it hits a certain speed (most are between
    >10-15mph) the computer triggers a self test of the evaporative emissions
    >system. The test starts by the computer closing a solenoid valve in the
    >vapor line from the tank. Then it opens another solenoid valve on the
    >intake manifold. The computer monitors a sensor in the tank and uses a
    >baseline setting to measure how long it takes for a set amount of vacuum
    >to build in the fuel tank. Then it closes that solenoid and measures how
    >fast that level drops. If it is unable to draw the correct vacuum OR the
    >vacuum drops to fast it will trigger the "gas cap light". It also sets a
    >code in the computer that says "evap. system leak"
    >
    >This test has a set list of items that stop the computer from running
    >the test.
    >If the gas tank is over 3/4 tank OR under 1/4 tank.
    >If the ambient temperature and engine temperature are more than 15
    >degrees different. (Warm engine /cold day)
    >Throttle position open more than 20%
    >
    >The common problem I have found is the solenoid valve that vents the
    >tank gets dirty and sticks. This stops the vacuum from building and sets
    >off the light. Or the one on the engine doesn't seal properly and the
    >vacuum drops to fast.
    >
    >I have also seen rusted out vapor lines set the code as well.
    >
    >A decent mechanic can hook a tester to the fuel fill neck and run a few
    >tests and see where the problem is.
    >
    >Now on the chance that the new cap actually did fix the problem you also
    >need to perform a certain number of drive cycles to allow ALL the tests
    >to run. If you drove it those 250 miles and only shut it off once or not
    >at all you have a few more cycles to go. Start it and drive it 10 miles
    >or so. Shut it off and let it cool down. (visit a friend or bar or store
    >or mall) Start it up and drive home. Do this a couple more times and
    >then on the day of the test take it on a LONGER drive and make sure it
    >is fully warmed up before you take it in for the test.



  7. #7
    frank1492
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    Hello Bill-
    Ugly is right! I am sick of this!
    Anyway, I will continue to try a combo of different things
    and keep a log, and try to be sure the engine is good and warm
    when I bring it in.
    I am going to have another chat with the mechanic *but* I
    do know he used a scanner. I can't be sure what keys he
    pressed but I believe the attempt was to simply reset the
    part of the system responsible for the "gas cap" message.
    Assuming the scanner was used properly, does that
    help narrow down what is going on?
    Here is what the print out showed when the car was
    initially rejected (not today when it was redone and I was
    told "still not ready."):
    I am in MA.
    Overall OBD- FAIL
    Malfunction Detected- NO
    OBD Connector- PASS
    OBD Communication- PASS
    Overall Readiness- NOT READY
    Engine Misfire- READY
    Fuel System- READY
    Comprehensive Component- READY
    Catalytic Converters- NOT READY
    Evaporative System- NOT READY
    Secondary Air Injection- NOT READY
    Oxygen Sensors- NOT READY
    Oxygen Sensor Heaters- NOT READY
    EGR System- NOT READY

    Thank you very much for your help.
    Frank





    On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:28:46 -0800, William H. Bowen
    <wh_bowen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    >frank1492 <frank1492@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    >>cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    >>time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    >>should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    >>(b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    >> I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    >>then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    >>Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    >>inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    >>ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    >>I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    >>unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    >>computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    >>particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    >>recognize the correction in the past.
    >> Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    >>I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    >>eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    >>I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    >> Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    >> Frank
    >> P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    >>warmed up when the test was done?

    >
    >Frank,
    >
    > You've run into one of the ugly secrets of OBD II (On Board
    >Diagnostics Version 2) called "Monitors". The reason the PCM is
    >showing "Not Ready" is one or more of the on-board tests the PCM needs
    >to run to set various monitors has not been completed.
    >
    >Driving the car under various operating conditions (stop and go,
    >highway, etc.) will help this process along. Some of the monitors only
    >set up during various operating conditions.
    >
    >How did the mechanic reset the computer - by disconnecting the battery
    >or did he use a scanner and reset the specific DTC from the gas cap?
    >If at all possible with an OBDII car it is better to use a scanner and
    >reset the specific DTC VS resetting the whole PCM, which also resets
    >ALL the monitors to the "not set up" state.
    >
    >Regards,
    > Bill Bowen
    > Sacramento, CA



  8. #8
    Steve W.
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "CheckGas Cap."

    frank1492 wrote:
    > Thank you Steve for your very complete reply explaining
    > how the system works.
    > I believe I have been through around a dozen or so
    > start-stop cycles in two major trips.
    > Before I have someone go after other possible sources
    > of a leak in the evap system, I think it would make sense to pursue
    > the possibility that it was the cap. Since the display is clear at the
    > moment, I need to see if the warning comes back.
    > But let's suppose I follow your advice and run the car a few more
    > 5-10 mile cycles, and the warning doesn't come back. And then the
    > station still tells me "it's still to early," what would you do then?
    > Do I keep trying or have the car looked at? Remember I have 60 days.
    > What is also a problem is that I much prefer to drive my Murano. The
    > DeVille is supposed to be a "special occasion" car so i'd like to get
    > this cleared up ASAP.
    > Incidentally I called the station and asked them if they thought
    > the car might have been insufficiently warmed up when I brought
    > it in. (It was cold overnight, 5 minutes to the station, then 5-10
    > minutes waiting in the car with the engine running.) They said it
    > wasn't likely as it was a fairly new car.
    > Frank
    >


    The warm up is just to make sure that the converter has reached
    operating temperature so you don't fail for excess hydrocarbons.

    To find out if your OK you could do a few things.
    Go to your mechanic and have him plug in his scanner. It will show if
    all the monitor tests have run.

    I believe that states that do full emissions testing will also run that
    scan to see if your ready to go, without actually testing.

    OR go to your local parts store (or even Wal~Mart) and you can buy a
    scan tool that you can plug in to check it yourself. It will also allow
    you to read the codes that set the SEl or gas cap lights yourself and it
    would work on both of your vehicles. They run about 100-150 dollars for
    one that will give you the basics. BUT if you have one you can pull any
    new codes, read them and get advice here (and a few other places online
    as well) about what the problem likely is. Makes it nice to have a good
    idea what the problem is if you take it to a shop to have them repair
    it. It also allows you to check some items that wear over time so you
    could get them replaced before they cause problems. (such as seeing the
    voltage of the oxygen sensors or the voltage the charging system is
    putting out, plus a lot more). It also allows you to do some testing to
    pinpoint problems better.

    --
    Steve W.
    Near Cooperstown, New York

    Life is not like a box of chocolates
    it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
    what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

  9. #9
    Woody
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    It takes several DRIVE cycles to reset all the codes. This means the car has
    to cool down between cycles. Hot start and stop on a trip doesn't count. It
    has to be a cold to warm up cycle and driving for certain amount of time.
    Depending on your driving habits it could take a week or more. For an
    explanation do a google search on obd2 drive cycle or look at this article
    http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/h...ml#drive_cycle



    "Steve W." <csr684NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:fqhuor$h0$1@aioe.org...
    > frank1492 wrote:
    >> Thank you Steve for your very complete reply explaining how the system
    >> works.
    >> I believe I have been through around a dozen or so
    >> start-stop cycles in two major trips.
    >> Before I have someone go after other possible sources
    >> of a leak in the evap system, I think it would make sense to pursue
    >> the possibility that it was the cap. Since the display is clear at the
    >> moment, I need to see if the warning comes back.
    >> But let's suppose I follow your advice and run the car a few more
    >> 5-10 mile cycles, and the warning doesn't come back. And then the
    >> station still tells me "it's still to early," what would you do then?
    >> Do I keep trying or have the car looked at? Remember I have 60 days.
    >> What is also a problem is that I much prefer to drive my Murano. The
    >> DeVille is supposed to be a "special occasion" car so i'd like to get
    >> this cleared up ASAP.
    >> Incidentally I called the station and asked them if they thought
    >> the car might have been insufficiently warmed up when I brought
    >> it in. (It was cold overnight, 5 minutes to the station, then 5-10
    >> minutes waiting in the car with the engine running.) They said it
    >> wasn't likely as it was a fairly new car.
    >> Frank
    >>

    >
    > The warm up is just to make sure that the converter has reached operating
    > temperature so you don't fail for excess hydrocarbons.
    >
    > To find out if your OK you could do a few things.
    > Go to your mechanic and have him plug in his scanner. It will show if all
    > the monitor tests have run.
    >
    > I believe that states that do full emissions testing will also run that
    > scan to see if your ready to go, without actually testing.
    >
    > OR go to your local parts store (or even Wal~Mart) and you can buy a scan
    > tool that you can plug in to check it yourself. It will also allow you to
    > read the codes that set the SEl or gas cap lights yourself and it would
    > work on both of your vehicles. They run about 100-150 dollars for one that
    > will give you the basics. BUT if you have one you can pull any new codes,
    > read them and get advice here (and a few other places online as well)
    > about what the problem likely is. Makes it nice to have a good idea what
    > the problem is if you take it to a shop to have them repair it. It also
    > allows you to check some items that wear over time so you could get them
    > replaced before they cause problems. (such as seeing the voltage of the
    > oxygen sensors or the voltage the charging system is putting out, plus a
    > lot more). It also allows you to do some testing to pinpoint problems
    > better.
    >
    > --
    > Steve W.
    > Near Cooperstown, New York
    >
    > Life is not like a box of chocolates
    > it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
    > what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!




  10. #10
    Woody
    Guest

    Default Re: Possible Computer Problem with 2001 Cadillac DeVille- "Check Gas Cap."

    Individual DTC's cannot be reset with the tester. The only way to reset them
    is by resetting the computer. Some DTC's will be reset by the computer if
    the problem is intermittent but it cannot be done with the tester. As I said
    above the car has to go through a number of drive cycles to test the
    components and it could take a week or more of driving. The moral is if you
    are coming up on an inspection get the problems fixed early and don't reset
    the computer at the last minute.

    "William H. Bowen" <wh_bowen@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:cuqos3p6sa6rllajb062hf3bebf2o7h4p6@4ax.com...
    > frank1492 <frank1492@verizon.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Some months ago the "Check Gas Cap" message showed up. I bought a new
    >>cap, but it never went away after driving about 750 miles. By that
    >>time, the computer should have recognized the correction and the light
    >>should have gone out *unless* either (a) the computer was faulty or
    >>(b) the new gas cap hadn't corrected the problem.
    >> I had a mechanic reset the computer (message disappeared.) I
    >>then drove the car about 250 miles, and the message did not return.
    >>Assuming everything was fine, I then went in for my annual emissions
    >>inspection and was informed that the computer " was not
    >>ready!" Since the computer was not in a "ready" state after 250 miles,
    >>I assumed there might be a computer problem. The station guy was
    >>unclear as to whether he had ever seen it take this long for the
    >>computer to return to a "ready" state, but I am suspicious,
    >>particularly since the computer had apparently not seemed to
    >>recognize the correction in the past.
    >> Can someone give me an idea of what may be going on here?
    >>I generally don't drive this car that much, but if you think this will
    >>eventually correct, I will have to drive it some more. In the meantime
    >>I have 60 days to get this all resolved as my car was rejected.
    >> Your advice please. Thanks in advnace for helping me.
    >> Frank
    >> P.S. Could this have happened because the car was not sufficiently
    >>warmed up when the test was done?

    >
    > Frank,
    >
    > You've run into one of the ugly secrets of OBD II (On Board
    > Diagnostics Version 2) called "Monitors". The reason the PCM is
    > showing "Not Ready" is one or more of the on-board tests the PCM needs
    > to run to set various monitors has not been completed.
    >
    > Driving the car under various operating conditions (stop and go,
    > highway, etc.) will help this process along. Some of the monitors only
    > set up during various operating conditions.
    >
    > How did the mechanic reset the computer - by disconnecting the battery
    > or did he use a scanner and reset the specific DTC from the gas cap?
    > If at all possible with an OBDII car it is better to use a scanner and
    > reset the specific DTC VS resetting the whole PCM, which also resets
    > ALL the monitors to the "not set up" state.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Bill Bowen
    > Sacramento, CA




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