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Discuss Conversation over -- no more GM cars in the alt.autos.gm forum at Car Dealer Forums; I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has ...
  1. #1
    Edwin Pawlowski
    Guest

    Default Conversation over -- no more GM cars

    I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has more than
    normal repairs. Looking at a few other brands, I was still going back to
    the Buick as a possibility. No more.

    Today, we stopped for lunch and when I got back into the car, I accidentally
    hit the rear window button and the window came down about an inch. I pushed
    the button to put it back up, heard a crunch, and that was it. It did not go
    up and, in fact, just fell down.

    This is the third window in a year, the second in two weeks. As soon as the
    rain stops, I'm going to removed the door panel and prop it up with a piece
    of wood. I never use the back windows anyway, so it is a good solution.

    Power windows failed
    Heated seat failed (they want $575 to repair)
    Transmission overhaul
    Wheel bearings
    Second set of front rotors
    Oxygen sensor
    Air pump making noise, failure immanent

    Most expensive car, in repair costs I've ever owned next to a Mercedes.
    Dealers not interested in a trade in at reasonable allowance either. This
    car "should" last another 75,000 miles, but it will probably fall apart in a
    few more weeks.






    › See More: Conversation over -- no more GM cars

  2. #2
    grappletech
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars

    "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
    news:u6uwg.129605$H71.69355@newssvr13.news.prodigy .com:

    > I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has more
    > than normal repairs. Looking at a few other brands, I was still going
    > back to the Buick as a possibility. No more.
    >
    > Today, we stopped for lunch and when I got back into the car, I
    > accidentally hit the rear window button and the window came down about
    > an inch. I pushed the button to put it back up, heard a crunch, and
    > that was it. It did not go up and, in fact, just fell down.
    >
    > This is the third window in a year, the second in two weeks. As soon
    > as the rain stops, I'm going to removed the door panel and prop it up
    > with a piece of wood. I never use the back windows anyway, so it is a
    > good solution.
    >
    > Power windows failed
    > Heated seat failed (they want $575 to repair)
    > Transmission overhaul
    > Wheel bearings
    > Second set of front rotors
    > Oxygen sensor
    > Air pump making noise, failure immanent
    >
    > Most expensive car, in repair costs I've ever owned next to a
    > Mercedes. Dealers not interested in a trade in at reasonable allowance
    > either. This car "should" last another 75,000 miles, but it will
    > probably fall apart in a few more weeks.
    >
    >
    >
    >



    Your Buick has the 3800 V6. One of the best engines ever according To
    Ward's Automotive. Good for 300K miles with regular maintenance. I see
    a lot of poor people around here in NE Ohio driving '86 to mid 90's full
    size GM cars -- like the LeSabre, Electra, Park Avenue, Olds 88/98,
    Pontiac Bonneville, etc.. The bodies are usually beat to hell but the
    3800 engines still run well. I never see them smoke or hear them knock.
    Sorry about your experience. Did GM go halfway with you on some of the
    repairs? We have a '99 Olds 88 with the same engine. Great car. Lots
    of power, comfort, handles well, room for 6 if needed, great gas
    mileage. Only minor problem it had was taken care of under extended
    warranty. We bought it with 45K miles a year ago and bought the ext.
    warranty for $800.

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  3. #3
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars


    "grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
    news:1153594676_86903@sp6iad.superfeed.net...

    > Your Buick has the 3800 V6. One of the best engines ever according To
    > Ward's Automotive. Good for 300K miles with regular maintenance.


    Read further, Grapple. He has the Series II 3800. It comes with a built-in
    probability to
    fail due to the plastic manifold situation. Series I didn't do that.

    And, when it fails, if you are out of warranty with respect to mileage or
    time, GM tells you
    to suck wind.

    A decent engine with an Achille's heel.



  4. #4
    Al Bundy
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars


    grappletech wrote:
    > "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
    > news:u6uwg.129605$H71.69355@newssvr13.news.prodigy .com:
    >
    > > I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has more
    > > than normal repairs. Looking at a few other brands, I was still going
    > > back to the Buick as a possibility. No more.
    > >
    > > Today, we stopped for lunch and when I got back into the car, I
    > > accidentally hit the rear window button and the window came down about
    > > an inch. I pushed the button to put it back up, heard a crunch, and
    > > that was it. It did not go up and, in fact, just fell down.
    > >
    > > This is the third window in a year, the second in two weeks. As soon
    > > as the rain stops, I'm going to removed the door panel and prop it up
    > > with a piece of wood. I never use the back windows anyway, so it is a
    > > good solution.
    > >
    > > Power windows failed
    > > Heated seat failed (they want $575 to repair)
    > > Transmission overhaul
    > > Wheel bearings
    > > Second set of front rotors
    > > Oxygen sensor
    > > Air pump making noise, failure immanent
    > >
    > > Most expensive car, in repair costs I've ever owned next to a
    > > Mercedes. Dealers not interested in a trade in at reasonable allowance
    > > either. This car "should" last another 75,000 miles, but it will
    > > probably fall apart in a few more weeks.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    > Your Buick has the 3800 V6. One of the best engines ever according To
    > Ward's Automotive. Good for 300K miles with regular maintenance. I see
    > a lot of poor people around here in NE Ohio driving '86 to mid 90's full
    > size GM cars -- like the LeSabre, Electra, Park Avenue, Olds 88/98,
    > Pontiac Bonneville, etc.. The bodies are usually beat to hell but the
    > 3800 engines still run well. I never see them smoke or hear them knock.
    > Sorry about your experience. Did GM go halfway with you on some of the
    > repairs? We have a '99 Olds 88 with the same engine. Great car. Lots
    > of power, comfort, handles well, room for 6 if needed, great gas
    > mileage. Only minor problem it had was taken care of under extended
    > warranty. We bought it with 45K miles a year ago and bought the ext.
    > warranty for $800.
    >

    That's not a vote of confidence when you are betting you have more
    than $800 in repairs over the warranty. Another way of looking at it is
    that you paid $800 in repairs up front.


  5. #5
    Edwin Pawlowski
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars


    "grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message

    > Your Buick has the 3800 V6. One of the best engines ever according To
    > Ward's Automotive. Good for 300K miles with regular maintenance.



    So far, the engine is good. I expect, however, in a year or so I'll be
    holding on to a little red wagon behind it as the rest of the car falls
    apart. I also have a '91 Regal with the 3800 series I that is going strong,
    and overall a better car than the '01.


    > Did GM go halfway with you on some of the
    > repairs?


    They offered me $500 off the price of a new car for the failed heated seat.
    The car was two winters old but had more than 36k on the odometer. It would
    not have made economic sense to buy a new car at that time. At that point,
    everything else was working well and I was still happy.

    I know Mike Hunter will probably chime in here about all the GM cars and how
    people love them, but I'm looking at a car that I want to last for a long
    time. It was good for the first 85,000 miles. I had a plan to make this
    car the secondary vihicle of the household and it would get very little
    miles while I drive the new one. I was going to start shopping for a
    Lucerne last April. I had some money saved for a down payment. Problem
    was, though, the down payment money went towards the transmission a month
    before. Another $850 in repairs in June have now postponed the new car until
    January.

    A 50% failure rate for power windows between two cars is not very good.
    Considering it is the same problem in both cars, built at different times
    with different (but similar) mechanisims, I'd conclude the cable is a design
    flaw. It could easily be improved, but that would at 20 to the cost of a
    new car.

    And talk about timing, an hour before this broke I was looking at some cars
    at a Nissan dealer. Saw a sharp looking Altima there, but I'm going to wait
    for the '07's to see how they are.








  6. #6
    Bob Bitchen
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars


    "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
    news:u6uwg.129605$H71.69355@newssvr13.news.prodigy .com...
    >I was soured on GM cars by the quality of my 2001 LeSabre. It has more than
    >normal repairs. Looking at a few other brands, I was still going back to
    >the Buick as a possibility. No more.
    >
    > Today, we stopped for lunch and when I got back into the car, I
    > accidentally hit the rear window button and the window came down about an
    > inch. I pushed the button to put it back up, heard a crunch, and that was
    > it. It did not go up and, in fact, just fell down.
    >
    > This is the third window in a year, the second in two weeks. As soon as
    > the rain stops, I'm going to removed the door panel and prop it up with a
    > piece of wood. I never use the back windows anyway, so it is a good
    > solution.
    >
    > Power windows failed
    > Heated seat failed (they want $575 to repair)
    > Transmission overhaul
    > Wheel bearings
    > Second set of front rotors
    > Oxygen sensor
    > Air pump making noise, failure immanent
    >
    > Most expensive car, in repair costs I've ever owned next to a Mercedes.
    > Dealers not interested in a trade in at reasonable allowance either. This
    > car "should" last another 75,000 miles, but it will probably fall apart in
    > a few more weeks.
    >
    >
    >



    Your experience is very common, and very similar to mine.

    I'm happy so far with my Toyota Tundra, my wife's Sennia mini van, and my
    Daughter's Camry.

    Best of luck,

    Bob



  7. #7
    =?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?=
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars

    Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
    >
    > (snip) I'm looking at a car that I want to last for a long
    > time.


    Manufacturers stopped making those about 20 years ago.
    Take your window motor and regulator for example...
    20 years ago they were made out of metal, were about the size of a can of spray
    paint, weighed 6 pounds, and lasted at least ten years. Now they are plastic,
    about the size of a spray can lid, weigh 6 ounces, and last 3 years.
    Your best bet is Lexus.

  8. #8
    grappletech
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars

    "=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?=" <"
    =?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com>
    wrote in news:44C20283.5753C9C0@houston.rr.com:

    > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
    >>
    >> (snip) I'm looking at a car that I want to last for a long
    >> time.

    >
    > Manufacturers stopped making those about 20 years ago.
    > Take your window motor and regulator for example...
    > 20 years ago they were made out of metal, were about the size of a can
    > of spray paint, weighed 6 pounds, and lasted at least ten years. Now
    > they are plastic, about the size of a spray can lid, weigh 6 ounces,
    > and last 3 years. Your best bet is Lexus.
    >



    Or a '64 Dodge Dart 170 sedan. I bought from original owner out in CA
    in the early 90's for $800. No rust. 80K miles. All original. 225ci
    slant 6 with push button Torqueflite automatic tranny. Radio delete.
    steel wheels with tiny "Dodge" hubcaps. Just plastic on the floors, no
    carpet. No AC, No PS. Very simple car, always started, ran great. The
    dashboard was very thick guage metal. Shiny and new looking, like it
    looked in 1964. The sheetmetal on that entire car's body was very, very
    thick, unlike today's cars. In the middle of the steering wheel hub was
    a decorative cap commenerating Dodge's 50 years making automobiles --
    1914 to 1964. I regret selling it.

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  9. #9
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars


    "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message news:xJwwg.53749
    > I know Mike Hunter will probably chime in here about all the GM cars and

    how
    > people love them,


    He has been in my kill file for so long, I had almost forgotten him .



  10. #10
    Eugene Nine
    Guest

    Default Re: Conversation over -- no more GM cars

    Paul wrote:

    > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
    >>
    >> (snip) I'm looking at a car that I want to last for a long
    >> time.

    >
    > Manufacturers stopped making those about 20 years ago.
    > Take your window motor and regulator for example...
    > 20 years ago they were made out of metal, were about the size of a can of
    > spray
    > paint, weighed 6 pounds, and lasted at least ten years. Now they are
    > plastic, about the size of a spray can lid, weigh 6 ounces, and last 3
    > years. Your best bet is Lexus.


    Tell that to both the owners of a company I used to work for whose Lexus'
    cost them more in repairs/maintenance than the payment each month.


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