Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
fluid (R12 I think they called it).

I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.

I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
it not as well as it used to.

Am I dreaming???

You have r134 not r12, it is enviro safe.
"Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
> Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>
> I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
> which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
> enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.
>
> I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
> it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
> Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
> it not as well as it used to.
>
> Am I dreaming???
>



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In article
<1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.c om>,
"Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> fluid (R12 I think they called it).

Doesn't sound like they know what they're talking about.
There is nothing "unsafe" about the refrigerant that came in the
vehicle from the factory.

> I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
> which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
> enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.

Pointless to fill a system that is leaking.
CO2 is the most environmentally safe refrigerant available,
problem is, there are no automotive systems that use it yet, if
and when they do, it will raise other concerns due to the extreme
pressures involved.

> I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
> it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
> Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
> it not as well as it used to.

Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.

> Am I dreaming???

Very much so.

> Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
> the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.

What ARE the rules that need to be followed?


aarcuda69062 wrote:
> In article
> <1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.c om>,
> "Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> > stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> > could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> > fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>
> Doesn't sound like they know what they're talking about.
> There is nothing "unsafe" about the refrigerant that came in the
> vehicle from the factory.
>
> > I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
> > which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
> > enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.
>
> Pointless to fill a system that is leaking.
> CO2 is the most environmentally safe refrigerant available,
> problem is, there are no automotive systems that use it yet, if
> and when they do, it will raise other concerns due to the extreme
> pressures involved.
>
> > I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
> > it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
> > Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
> > it not as well as it used to.
>
> Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
> the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.
>
> > Am I dreaming???
>
> Very much so.

At any rate, thanks for your detailed post.

I'll answer my own question - lest I be branded a moron ;o)

The rules in my case;
- fix the leak
- put in more R134a

finito.

Paul wrote:
> > Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
> > the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.
>
> What ARE the rules that need to be followed?
>
>
> aarcuda69062 wrote:
> > In article
> > <1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.c om>,
> > "Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> > > stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> > > could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> > > fluid (R12 I think they called it).
> >
> > Doesn't sound like they know what they're talking about.
> > There is nothing "unsafe" about the refrigerant that came in the
> > vehicle from the factory.
> >
> > > I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
> > > which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
> > > enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.
> >
> > Pointless to fill a system that is leaking.
> > CO2 is the most environmentally safe refrigerant available,
> > problem is, there are no automotive systems that use it yet, if
> > and when they do, it will raise other concerns due to the extreme
> > pressures involved.
> >
> > > I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
> > > it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
> > > Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
> > > it not as well as it used to.
> >
> > Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
> > the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.
> >
> > > Am I dreaming???
> >
> > Very much so.

Absolutely right.
"Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156281941.907638.35770@b28g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...
> At any rate, thanks for your detailed post.
>
> I'll answer my own question - lest I be branded a moron ;o)
>
> The rules in my case;
> - fix the leak
> - put in more R134a
>
> finito.
>
> Paul wrote:
>> > Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
>> > the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.
>>
>> What ARE the rules that need to be followed?
>>
>>
>> aarcuda69062 wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.c om>,
>> > "Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has
>> > > slowly
>> > > stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
>> > > could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally
>> > > unsafe"
>> > > fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>> >
>> > Doesn't sound like they know what they're talking about.
>> > There is nothing "unsafe" about the refrigerant that came in the
>> > vehicle from the factory.
>> >
>> > > I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
>> > > which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
>> > > enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.
>> >
>> > Pointless to fill a system that is leaking.
>> > CO2 is the most environmentally safe refrigerant available,
>> > problem is, there are no automotive systems that use it yet, if
>> > and when they do, it will raise other concerns due to the extreme
>> > pressures involved.
>> >
>> > > I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold
>> > > as
>> > > it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the
>> > > environment.
>> > > Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work,
>> > > even
>> > > it not as well as it used to.
>> >
>> > Nothing can be "poured in." Any conversion would require that
>> > the rules be followed WRT retrofitting the system.
>> >
>> > > Am I dreaming???
>> >
>> > Very much so.
>



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"Paul" <pauldelange7@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156272954.467384.22310@74g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
> Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>
> I'm interested in filling the system (not necessarily fixing the leak
> which could be > $1000) with something that has zero (or next to it)
> enviromental impact. Been to the EPA website - all very confusing.
>
> I'm willing to take a hit in efficiency - does't have to be as cold as
> it used to be - I'd just like something NOT harmful to the environment.
> Ideally something I can just "pour in", is NOT bad, and will work, even
> it not as well as it used to.
>
> Am I dreaming???

You have been brainwashed by environmentalism. Do whatever you
like about your AC and don't worry about losing a little coolant.

>Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
>stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
>could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
>fluid (R12 I think they called it).

I'll bring up a point the others haven't mentioned, if "they" (I
presume "they" is/are your mechanic(s)) are telling you your system
takes R12, which wasn't used in cars past 1992 (if I'm not mistaken,
too lazy to look) due to federal mandate, then you've got an
incompetent mechanic(s) and I suggest you take your mechanic work
elsewhere!

As others have said, your car does take 134a, and if you have a leak,
get that fixed first, unless it's SO MINOR that a can of 134a with
stop leak will solve it. My 94 Lumina has such a small leak, they
couldn't find it even with a charge of the UV dye 134a, so every year
I charge with a can of 134a with the stop leak, and it's fine until
the next season. Unfortunately, living up here in the rust belt, my
poor car is falling apart and this will probably be its last
winter...with 192k miles on it at the moment

-GV

GlassVial wrote:
>> Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
>> stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
>> could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
>> fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>
> I'll bring up a point the others haven't mentioned, if "they" (I
> presume "they" is/are your mechanic(s)) are telling you your system
> takes R12, which wasn't used in cars past 1992 (if I'm not mistaken,
> too lazy to look) due to federal mandate, then you've got an
> incompetent mechanic(s) and I suggest you take your mechanic work
> elsewhere!
>
> As others have said, your car does take 134a, and if you have a leak,
> get that fixed first, unless it's SO MINOR that a can of 134a with
> stop leak will solve it. My 94 Lumina has such a small leak, they
> couldn't find it even with a charge of the UV dye 134a, so every year
> I charge with a can of 134a with the stop leak, and it's fine until
> the next season. Unfortunately, living up here in the rust belt, my
> poor car is falling apart and this will probably be its last
> winter...with 192k miles on it at the moment
>
> -GV
>


R-12 was used until 95. R-134a was started in 92 and was fully adopted
by 95. That can make it interesting since some models could be either
one depending on actual build date. Others like the S/T Blazers were
R-12 through 94 and when the new body came out in 95 they were 134A. The
S/T P/Us were R-134A in 94 due to the new body style being on the P/U
before the Blazers.

For the OP fix the leak, vacuum out the system and recharge with 134A.
If the shop you went to says you need R-12 find a different shop that
actually knows how your A/C works and will repair it correctly.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

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Thanks to all - it seems that R134a is a "controlled substance" here in
Canada - it is categorized along with R12. It seems this is a
burocratic thing, as my internet research has lead me to suspect R134a
it has no environmental impact (whereas R12 is horrendous).

Given that the AC has been dying a slow death for several years, I must
conclude that it has a very small leak.

Can you buy R134A (with leakstop) in the US, or is it controlled there
as well?

I find it ironic that you could purchase hydrocarbon-based coolents
over the counter (which seems MORE dangerous albeit to the persons
inside the vehicle, not to the ozone layer).


GlassVial wrote:
> >Hi there, have a 96 lumina sedan where the air conditioning has slowly
> >stopped working. my garage indicated that it's likely a leak & they
> >could fix it & recharge, but that would use the "enviromentally unsafe"
> >fluid (R12 I think they called it).
>
> I'll bring up a point the others haven't mentioned, if "they" (I
> presume "they" is/are your mechanic(s)) are telling you your system
> takes R12, which wasn't used in cars past 1992 (if I'm not mistaken,
> too lazy to look) due to federal mandate, then you've got an
> incompetent mechanic(s) and I suggest you take your mechanic work
> elsewhere!
>
> As others have said, your car does take 134a, and if you have a leak,
> get that fixed first, unless it's SO MINOR that a can of 134a with
> stop leak will solve it. My 94 Lumina has such a small leak, they
> couldn't find it even with a charge of the UV dye 134a, so every year
> I charge with a can of 134a with the stop leak, and it's fine until
> the next season. Unfortunately, living up here in the rust belt, my
> poor car is falling apart and this will probably be its last
> winter...with 192k miles on it at the moment
>
> -GV