On 13 Nov, 13:41, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com" <IlBeBa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 8:00*am, "HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
> > "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:5394aa88-6e0e-4942-a8c4-
> > > ``Basically it appears to be bailout or bankruptcy,'' Reid wrote in
> > > his note. ``The exact outcome is near impossible to predict with any
> > > certainty as it's now highly political.''
>
> > Democrats seem to be leaning toward a bailout. *No matter what happens, it
> > is
> > a very serious situation.
>
> How many more HUGE financial hardships can our Government take before
> a Domino effect ?

The Domino is already falling

Thus spake Gosi <gosinn@gmail.com> :

>On 13 Nov, 13:41, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com" <IlBeBa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 12, 8:00*am, "HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>>
>> > "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:5394aa88-6e0e-4942-a8c4-
>> > > ``Basically it appears to be bailout or bankruptcy,'' Reid wrote in
>> > > his note. ``The exact outcome is near impossible to predict with any
>> > > certainty as it's now highly political.''
>>
>> > Democrats seem to be leaning toward a bailout. *No matter what happens, it
>> > is
>> > a very serious situation.
>>
>> How many more HUGE financial hardships can our Government take before
>> a Domino effect ?
>
>The Domino is already falling

No, Domino's is doing quite well.

On 14 Nov, 03:14, Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpy...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Thus spake Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> :
>
>
>
> >On 13 Nov, 13:41, "IlBeBa...@gmail.com" <IlBeBa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 12, 8:00*am, "HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
> >> > "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:5394aa88-6e0e-4942-a8c4-
> >> > > ``Basically it appears to be bailout or bankruptcy,'' Reid wrote in
> >> > > his note. ``The exact outcome is near impossible to predict with any
> >> > > certainty as it's now highly political.''
>
> >> > Democrats seem to be leaning toward a bailout. *No matter what happens, it
> >> > is
> >> > a very serious situation.
>
> >> How many more HUGE financial hardships can our Government take before
> >> a Domino effect ?
>
> >The Domino is already falling
>
> No, Domino's is doing quite well.

Other manufactuters are not very excited that GM is going bankrupt.
It is probably best for everyone concerned that the company will
decrease slowly rather than all of a sudden.
Then again it will be a prolonged and painful process.
For the US in the long run a quick bankruptcy will be best.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aO.4vvigTEHg

Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death

PR Newswire

DETROIT, Nov. 14

DETROIT, Nov. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- The following is being issued by
Automotive News:

If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, it
should
consider the cost of a GM failure.

Let's be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a
dreamy
Chapter 11 filing, a reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW
in their
place, ensuring future success.

No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the
lights
on (which it can't), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a
spiral
into a Chapter 7 liquidation.

GM's 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million
Americans
will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM's 1,300 suppliers will die.
Their
collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps
even
North American transplants. Dealers in every county of America will
close.

The government will face greater unemployment, more Americans
without
health insurance and greater pension liabilities.

Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is
not
whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with
the UAW
or supported higher fuel economy standards.

In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
out the
lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
alternative is
fantasy.

The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund
improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not
invest in
technology.

The collapse of the global financial system has crushed the
American car
market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their
weaknesses.

Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big
two years
ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the
strings
attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn't
deserve
money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic
owner.

Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out
and
install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won't
use any
of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In
any case,
he'd need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit "viable."

Well, nobody -- not even AIG -- is insuring guarantees for
viability.

The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM's top management
may need
to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice. Those
details can
be worked out.

The Detroit 3 CEOs and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had better
tell two
critical congressional hearings next week what sacrifices they are
prepared to make.

But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it
much of
manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing --
now.

Founded in 1925, Automotive News is the newspaper of the automotive
industry. The tabloid newsweekly and its web site, autonews.com, is
read
by North American car and truck manufacturers, their franchised
dealers,
and original-equipment suppliers. It is published by Crain
Communications
Inc.

AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

Keith Crain -- publisher

Peter Brown -- associate publisher and editorial director

On 16 Nov, 11:42, Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r=conews&tkr=G...
>
> Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death
> * *In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
> out the
> * *lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
> alternative is
> * *fantasy.

It is also fantasy that government money will do anything else than
prolong the agony for a few more months and it will be more expensive
in the end.

Watering dead plants does not wake them up from dead.

There will be lots of new initiative after the death of GM.

Gosi wrote:
> On 16 Nov, 11:42, Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r=conews&tkr=G...
>>
>>Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death
>> In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
>>out the
>> lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
>>alternative is
>> fantasy.
>
>
> It is also fantasy that government money will do anything else than
> prolong the agony for a few more months and it will be more expensive
> in the end.
>
> Watering dead plants does not wake them up from dead.
>

And even then you'll hafta deal with the weeds that sprout up.



> There will be lots of new initiative after the death of GM.
>
>


Chapter 11 is the best route for any/all of the automakers. It worked
for several of the airlines.

The appointment of a receiver (who is free of conflict of interest)
could enforce a restructuring that would have the best chance of success.

JT

On 16 Nov, 15:55, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
wrote:
> Gosi wrote:
> > On 16 Nov, 11:42, Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r=conews&tkr=G...
>
> >>Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death
> >> * In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
> >>out the
> >> * lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
> >>alternative is
> >> * fantasy.
>
> > It is also fantasy that government money will do anything else than
> > prolong the agony for a few more months and it will be more expensive
> > in the end.
>
> > Watering dead plants does not wake them up from dead.
>
> And even then you'll hafta deal with the weeds that sprout up.
>
> > There will be lots of new initiative after the death of GM.
>
> Chapter 11 is the best route for any/all of the automakers. It worked
> for several of the airlines.
>
> The appointment of a receiver (who is free of conflict of interest)
> could enforce a restructuring that would have the best chance of success.
>
> JT

Something like 2/3 of the top brass needs to be removed for any real
effect to be noticeable.

I guess they will not be able to turn things around so it is more
likely goodby GM.

Sure interesting to follow the development next few weeks.

As the other pig said:
"will there be life after x-mas?"

Gosi wrote:
> On 16 Nov, 15:55, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Gosi wrote:
>>
>>>On 16 Nov, 11:42, Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r=conews&tkr=G...
>>
>>>>Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death
>>>> In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
>>>>out the
>>>> lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
>>>>alternative is
>>>> fantasy.
>>
>>>It is also fantasy that government money will do anything else than
>>>prolong the agony for a few more months and it will be more expensive
>>>in the end.
>>
>>>Watering dead plants does not wake them up from dead.
>>
>>And even then you'll hafta deal with the weeds that sprout up.
>>
>>
>>>There will be lots of new initiative after the death of GM.
>>
>>Chapter 11 is the best route for any/all of the automakers. It worked
>>for several of the airlines.
>>
>>The appointment of a receiver (who is free of conflict of interest)
>>could enforce a restructuring that would have the best chance of success.
>>
>>JT
>
>
> Something like 2/3 of the top brass needs to be removed for any real
> effect to be noticeable.
>
> I guess they will not be able to turn things around so it is more
> likely goodby GM.
>
> Sure interesting to follow the development next few weeks.
>
> As the other pig said:
> "will there be life after x-mas?"



There's a great op ed by Mitt Romney in the NYT. Hits the nail squarely
on the head.

JT

Thus spake Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> :

>
>
>Gosi wrote:
>> On 16 Nov, 15:55, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Gosi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 16 Nov, 11:42, Gosi <gos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...r=conews&tkr=G...
>>>
>>>>>Automotive News: The Cost of GM's Death
>>>>> In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn
>>>>>out the
>>>>> lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other
>>>>>alternative is
>>>>> fantasy.
>>>
>>>>It is also fantasy that government money will do anything else than
>>>>prolong the agony for a few more months and it will be more expensive
>>>>in the end.
>>>
>>>>Watering dead plants does not wake them up from dead.
>>>
>>>And even then you'll hafta deal with the weeds that sprout up.
>>>
>>>
>>>>There will be lots of new initiative after the death of GM.
>>>
>>>Chapter 11 is the best route for any/all of the automakers. It worked
>>>for several of the airlines.
>>>
>>>The appointment of a receiver (who is free of conflict of interest)
>>>could enforce a restructuring that would have the best chance of success.
>>>
>>>JT
>>
>>
>> Something like 2/3 of the top brass needs to be removed for any real
>> effect to be noticeable.
>>
>> I guess they will not be able to turn things around so it is more
>> likely goodby GM.
>>
>> Sure interesting to follow the development next few weeks.
>>
>> As the other pig said:
>> "will there be life after x-mas?"
>
>
>
>There's a great op ed by Mitt Romney in the NYT. Hits the nail squarely
>on the head.
>
>JT

My recommendation on how to handle the executives and the BoD is
simple.

"Folks, can you step around back and stand by the pock marked wall?
Have a smoke if you want one, then tie these hankies around your
eyes".

GM's got some exciting vehicles, and Ford's done a great job catching
up with the imports on dependability and fuel economy (CAFE aside --
why should Ford be punished because they have the best trucks?). If
they can pull off their global unification of platforms, in a decade I
think they'll be on top of the game again.

To be perfectly blunt, the biggest gap is the perception gap. People's
belief that Ford/GM have problems is the chief cause of their problems
right now. GM may not survive the lag before perception matches
reality, but, barring catastrophic side effects from supplier
disruption from GM's bankruptcy, Ford will probably emerge as
America's only domestic auto manufacturer.

Which is kind of sad, in a way. France, Italy, China, India, and Korea
will have more domestic brands (and ones with awful product quality
gaps -- funny how every OTHER country supports their domestic auto
industry, even if they're not the tops?)