Car: 98 OBL 2.5L with 255K miles. My cam seal leak is now bad enough that I
have to do something. Dealer quoted me $575 including mandatory timing belt
replacement. Studying the Haynes manual makes me think I can do it for the
cost of the seals (timing belt is only about 30K miles old). There are a few
bits that are still unclear:

Is it better to raise the front end and work from underneath or work from
above?

If I understand it correctly, with cyl. 1 at TDC the cams on the right side
will not move when the timing belt is removed, but the cams on the left side
will. Is this right? Can I prevent them from moving?

If I'm taking off the timing belt and cam sprocket, how do I keep the cam
from moving, or how do I make sure it is in the right position when
reassembling?

Do I need any special tools to do this job?

This looks like a job that should take me about a half-day, moving slowly as
it's the first time. Is that right? The dealer said they needed a half day
to do it.

What am I missing?

Of course while the cover is off I'll check the other seals and the oil pump
gasket and replace them as needed.

If the timing belt has been soaked in oil it should be replaced in my
opinion. To answer the remaining questions go to www.endwrench.com for
a procedure with pictures. From my experience I suggest you lock ALL
the cams as there is too much at stake i.e. bent or nicked valves.
This assumes a DOHC engine-right?
"BobN" <nobody@here.com> wrote in message
news:QKIdh.11231$lI6.7676@newsfe13.lga...
> Car: 98 OBL 2.5L with 255K miles. My cam seal leak is now bad enough
> that I have to do something. Dealer quoted me $575 including
> mandatory timing belt replacement. Studying the Haynes manual makes
> me think I can do it for the cost of the seals (timing belt is only
> about 30K miles old). There are a few bits that are still unclear:
>
> Is it better to raise the front end and work from underneath or work
> from above?
>
> If I understand it correctly, with cyl. 1 at TDC the cams on the
> right side will not move when the timing belt is removed, but the
> cams on the left side will. Is this right? Can I prevent them from
> moving?
>
> If I'm taking off the timing belt and cam sprocket, how do I keep
> the cam from moving, or how do I make sure it is in the right
> position when reassembling?
>
> Do I need any special tools to do this job?
>
> This looks like a job that should take me about a half-day, moving
> slowly as it's the first time. Is that right? The dealer said they
> needed a half day to do it.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> Of course while the cover is off I'll check the other seals and the
> oil pump gasket and replace them as needed.
>

Thanks, Ed. I've read the article and searched the endwrench archive, but
there's nothing about how to deal with removing the cam sprocket. Presumably
taking off the lock and sprocket will cause the cam to shift unless it's
held some other way?

"Edward Hayes"
> If the timing belt has been soaked in oil it should be replaced in my
> opinion. To answer the remaining questions go to www.endwrench.com for a
> procedure with pictures. From my experience I suggest you lock ALL the
> cams as there is too much at stake i.e. bent or nicked valves. This
> assumes a DOHC engine-right?

I just had a timing belt replaced by a dealer and, ever since then, the
engine has a
slight knock. [97 Outback Imprezza]

RCM

Slight knock is hardly a description to help us. Detonation, valve
clearance, cam tensioner or engine rod/bearings etc. Tell us more if
you wish answers or guesses.
"RPM1" <rpm9@earthlinkdeleteme.net> wrote in message
news:x%eeh.8030$sf5.6819@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> "Edward Hayes"
>> If the timing belt has been soaked in oil it should be replaced in
>> my opinion. To answer the remaining questions go to
>> www.endwrench.com for a procedure with pictures. From my experience
>> I suggest you lock ALL the cams as there is too much at stake i.e.
>> bent or nicked valves. This assumes a DOHC engine-right?
>
> I just had a timing belt replaced by a dealer and, ever since then,
> the engine has a
> slight knock. [97 Outback Imprezza]
>
> RCM
>
>

In article <QKIdh.11231$lI6.7676@newsfe13.lga>,
nobody@here.com says...
> Car: 98 OBL 2.5L with 255K miles. My cam seal leak is now bad enough that I
> have to do something. Dealer quoted me $575 including mandatory timing belt
> replacement. Studying the Haynes manual makes me think I can do it for the
> cost of the seals (timing belt is only about 30K miles old). There are a few
> bits that are still unclear:
>
> Is it better to raise the front end and work from underneath or work from
> above?
>

If you're just doing the t belt, you can work on
it on the ground. If you'll replace the water
pump (assuming it's t-belt driven, like a legacy
or impreza DOHC), then you'll want it up a bit,
probably best on ramps. I'm not sure about
working the cam seals.

CompUser wrote:
> In article <QKIdh.11231$lI6.7676@newsfe13.lga>,
> nobody@here.com says...
>
>>Car: 98 OBL 2.5L with 255K miles. My cam seal leak is now bad enough that I
>>have to do something. Dealer quoted me $575 including mandatory timing belt
>>replacement. Studying the Haynes manual makes me think I can do it for the
>>cost of the seals (timing belt is only about 30K miles old). There are a few
>>bits that are still unclear:
>>
>>Is it better to raise the front end and work from underneath or work from
>>above?
>>
>
>
> If you're just doing the t belt, you can work on
> it on the ground. If you'll replace the water
> pump (assuming it's t-belt driven, like a legacy
> or impreza DOHC), then you'll want it up a bit,
> probably best on ramps. I'm not sure about
> working the cam seals.

What he said.

I pulled the fans and radiator for forward
clearance. Having the car up 6-10 inches
makes the job easier.

>>
>> If you're just doing the t belt, you can work on it on the ground. If
>> you'll replace the water pump (assuming it's t-belt driven, like a legacy
>> or impreza DOHC), then you'll want it up a bit, probably best on ramps.
>> I'm not sure about working the cam seals.
>
> What he said.
>
> I pulled the fans and radiator for forward
> clearance. Having the car up 6-10 inches
> makes the job easier.
>
All good advice.
The real experienced Subie techs at our shop do not raise it or remove the
radiator. That being said if you want the extra working space remove the
radiator, good time for a flush and as said before water pump change. here
are my tips.
Use a 1/2 inch breaker bar on the crank bolt, place it as close to the
drivers side wheel well as you can and bump the starter. Loud bang and the
crank bolt is loose. Get the engine to TDC; Subies are real forgiving on the
cam drifting when the belt is removed. A good belt will have nice lines for
reinstallation. Some use special pliers to pinch and hold the belt to the
cam sprockets during installation (picture needle nose vice grips with hoses
over the jaws) Remove the tensioner and reset it in a vice.
Do all the seals including the crank seal.
Are your valve covers leaking? Also not an imposable job but you will need
to get at them from the bottom.
Getting the belt on can be tricky; some remove a idler pulley and put it
back on after the belt is in position

Well, that's all I can think of at this time; got firewood to go cut; good
luck


--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician
ASE Automobile Advanced Engine Performance
ASE Undercar Specialist
Currently working at a Subaru dealership

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troub...l_obd_main.htm
http://www.troublecodes.net/technical/
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm

"Stephen H" <hansensw@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> Get the engine to TDC; Subies are real forgiving on the cam drifting when
> the belt is removed.

> Remove the tensioner and reset it in a vice.
> Do all the seals including the crank seal.
> Are your valve covers leaking? Also not an imposable job but you will
> need to get at them from the bottom.

Thank you, Stephen. That's just what I need. I'd just like to re-confirm:
Once the motor is at TDC I can remove the belt and the left-side cam
sprockets without damaging valves? I have seen the cam lock tool (although
I don't have one), but can't use that if I'm removing the sprockets to
replace cam seals, right?

An article I read in Endwrench suggested the contrary. It's too cold to
commute by motorcycle so I can't risk tying up the car for a week due to
bending valves or breaking anything.

I'll look at all the seals. The valve covers are dry. This is definitely an
issue with the front seals, and I think only the left-side cam seals are the
culprits.

BobN wrote:

> Of course while the cover is off I'll check the other seals and the oil pump
> gasket and replace them as needed.

Hi,

Without getting into the nuts and bolts of the operation (my EA82
engine's a bit different than yours, but all the operations you've
mentioned can be done from above on mine--I'm not familiar w/ your
engine), let me suggest you do yourself a favor and don't go half-arsed
on the parts replacements:

** AUTOMATIC replacement list when I'm getting in that far--

-Cam seals (both sides)

-Oil pump seals (O-rings on rear, conventional seal on front, search
archives for "Loc-tite the rear cover" advice_

-Front crankshaft main seal

-Timing belt(s) (even though yours has only 30k miles, removal and
replacement has been implicated in early failures, according to my Subie
parts guy. He said they learned that the hard way when they used to
"retension" belts and no longer do it.)

** Things to inspect carefully and replace if I suspect them AT ALL--

-Timing belt tensioner(s)

-Timing belt idler(s)

** Something many replace just cuz it's a PITA to do w/o doing the above
all as one job--

-Water pump

The added cost of these additional bits is minimal compared to the
aggravation of having to redo your work.

BTW, on time: allow yourself a full weekend the first time! Yeah, it's
only a half day job. Once you know the ins and outs! The learning curve
first time out will eat some time... and you don't want to be stressing
while you're learning.

Good luck!

Rick