I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the
wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often
recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?

-- Mark

Whatever works: works. Your post scares me. Are we on the same roads? I
just got runoff recently by an 80's camaro. I bet he would have asked
something like this...
Easy steps to follow:
1. Stomp on throttle in safe place, do donuts and powerslides until
questions like this disappear.
2. Slam on brakes, make it slide, in said safe place, and learn
3. LEARN your darn car.

Holy cow. I am gong to hide in inclement weather. Not because of the
weather...

"strchild" <strchild@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12sp1v7a1m663e1@news.supernews.com...
> Having driven AWD in ice and snow, I would not recommend a higher gear,
> instead, gearing down to slow the car for more stable handling under slick
> conditions. Seems easier to break traction in high gear when you have
> little to begin with, but maybe the other forum posters will have more
> insight.
>
> Just my two cents,
>
> ~Brian
>
> "Mark T.B. Carroll" <mark@ixod.org> wrote in message
> news:871wkzjv0w.fsf@ixod.org...
>>I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the
>> wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often
>> recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?
>>
>> -- Mark
>
>

bgd wrote:
> Whatever works: works. Your post scares me. Are we on the same roads? I
> just got runoff recently by an 80's camaro. I bet he would have asked
> something like this...
> Easy steps to follow:
> 1. Stomp on throttle in safe place, do donuts and powerslides until
> questions like this disappear.
> 2. Slam on brakes, make it slide, in said safe place, and learn
> 3. LEARN your darn car.
>
> Holy cow. I am gong to hide in inclement weather. Not because of the
> weather...

From the previous posts, I gather that the first two posters have never
done 1, 2, or 3.

I've found that a higher gear (second with A/T, second or third with
M/T) always works better except for two cases.

1) Going up a steep uphill that's been heavily sanded. Light foot
though! Try the higher gear first!

2) Slow creep in traffic, but even then try the higher gear first.

I've lost count over the years of the "low gear/punch it" school of
thought folks that are on the side of the road, off in the ditch, or
(worse yet) totally stalled in what was a moving stream of traffic.

Then there's the "totally slow is best" that poop out at the first small
rise and stop everyone else.



>
> "strchild" <strchild@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:12sp1v7a1m663e1@news.supernews.com...
>> Having driven AWD in ice and snow, I would not recommend a higher gear,
>> instead, gearing down to slow the car for more stable handling under slick
>> conditions. Seems easier to break traction in high gear when you have
>> little to begin with, but maybe the other forum posters will have more
>> insight.
>>
>> Just my two cents,
>>
>> ~Brian
>>
>> "Mark T.B. Carroll" <mark@ixod.org> wrote in message
>> news:871wkzjv0w.fsf@ixod.org...
>>> I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the
>>> wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often
>>> recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>
>
>

"nobody >" <invalid@email.death.by.spam> writes:

> From the previous posts, I gather that the first two posters have never
> done 1, 2, or 3.

Ah, then you need to read more carefully, because I didn't actually say
anything about what I've tried. In practice, I have tried sliding
around, etc., and I generally find that in the STi I do best in lower
gears but being careful not change the wheel speed or change direction
too fast (i.e. maintain reasonable rpms, but be gentle on the steering,
brakes, and on throttle movement). The FWD approach of steering into
skids seems to work well. Just because I read other people's advice and
wonder how right they are doesn't mean that that's /all/ I do!

It's hard to compare with other cars I've slid around in, though: it's
clearly better, but I've only had FWD, RWD or 4WD before: the Subaru AWD
works very well, but it's weirdly /different/. One thing that I wished
regular driving instruction covered, but that I had to learn afterwards,
was how differently to drive such different systems in bad conditions.

-- Mark

"Ja" <jte1951@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171121463.583880.10120@m58g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com...
> On Feb 9, 7:54 am, m...@ixod.org (Mark T.B. Carroll) wrote:
>> I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the
>> wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often
>> recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?
>>
>> -- Mark
>
> Using a lower gear at a given speed will produce more torque to the
> drive wheels. That's why you downshift when climbing hills. High
> torque on slick surfaces can cause the wheels to break loose and loose
> traction.
>

Right. That is why you should let up on the throttle if you start to break
loose and lose traction.

For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which implies
lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and keep the
RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.

"strchild" <strchild@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12sp1v7a1m663e1@news.supernews.com...
> Having driven AWD in ice and snow, I would not recommend a higher gear,
> instead, gearing down to slow the car for more stable handling under slick
> conditions. Seems easier to break traction in high gear when you have
> little to begin with, but maybe the other forum posters will have more
> insight.
>
> Just my two cents,
>
> ~Brian
>
> "Mark T.B. Carroll" <mark@ixod.org> wrote in message
> news:871wkzjv0w.fsf@ixod.org...
>>I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the
>> wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often
>> recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?
>>
>> -- Mark
>
>

In article <QSPzh.54707$Oa.5086@edtnps82>, "JD" <me@home.ca> wrote:
>For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which implies
>lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and keep the
>RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.

I don't get it. How's that lower torque helps to keep traction?

DK

DK wrote:
> In article <QSPzh.54707$Oa.5086@edtnps82>, "JD" <me@home.ca> wrote:
>> For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which implies
>> lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and keep the
>> RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.
>
> I don't get it. How's that lower torque helps to keep traction?
>
> DK

Higher torque is far more likely to cause the tires to slip/spin because
there's more power available to break the tenuous bond between the tire
and the snow. A slipping/spinning tire has far less traction (and
directional control) than one that's got less torque applied and isn't
spinning.

"nobody >" <invalid@email.death.by.spam> wrote in message
news:eqoopg01jda@news3.newsguy.com...
> DK wrote:
>> In article <QSPzh.54707$Oa.5086@edtnps82>, "JD" <me@home.ca> wrote:
>>> For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which
>>> implies lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and
>>> keep the RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.
>>
>> I don't get it. How's that lower torque helps to keep traction? DK
>
> Higher torque is far more likely to cause the tires to slip/spin because
> there's more power available to break the tenuous bond between the tire
> and the snow. A slipping/spinning tire has far less traction (and
> directional control) than one that's got less torque applied and isn't
> spinning.

So, just let up on the gas a bit...

Oscar_Lives wrote:
> "nobody >" <invalid@email.death.by.spam> wrote in message
> news:eqoopg01jda@news3.newsguy.com...
>> DK wrote:
>>> In article <QSPzh.54707$Oa.5086@edtnps82>, "JD" <me@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which
>>>> implies lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and
>>>> keep the RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.
>>> I don't get it. How's that lower torque helps to keep traction? DK
>> Higher torque is far more likely to cause the tires to slip/spin because
>> there's more power available to break the tenuous bond between the tire
>> and the snow. A slipping/spinning tire has far less traction (and
>> directional control) than one that's got less torque applied and isn't
>> spinning.
>
> So, just let up on the gas a bit...
>
>

That works, but it can also cause that break in traction going the other
way (from engine braking).

The throttle vs traction pushmepullyou is far harder to deal with in a
lower gear.

Why the big argument? Go out and try using both a lower and a higher
gear on ice/snow/grease/whatever. If you feel you can control staying in
that skinny window of traction in low gear, go ahead and do it. Just
don't block my way or hit me when you find that a throttle-foot twitch
cause you to break traction.