Hi,

Found this interesting:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business...18TDY08008.htm

Rick

Rick Courtright wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Found this interesting:
>
> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business...18TDY08008.htm
>
> Rick


How odd. I guess the R1 and R2 are not popular? Or, perhaps they can't
be easily brought to the correct standards for the European market?

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:

> How odd. I guess the R1 and R2 are not popular? Or, perhaps they can't
> be easily brought to the correct standards for the European market?

Hi,

My take is, unlike the Americans who are still trying to figure out how
to burn up oil as fast as possible (all the while griping about rising
prices!), the Europeans are getting quite serious about fuel economy. I
gathered from the way I read the article that Subaru can't hang with its
current models, while Toyota can. You noticed it appears Nissan's
teaming up w/ Suzuki, too (why not Renault?)

Anyway, some other surfing led to a note that 37% of European auto sales
are now diesels. Toyota turns in some rather fantastic fuel economy w/
many of their European diesels. Their Yaris comes in as good as or
better than any hybrids here, and even a 7 passenger Land Cruiser hits
29 mpg! (Compared to what, 14-16 on gas in the US?) Maybe this is
another way for Subaru to get a good deal on some diesel technology?

Lots of theories could pop up, no?

Rick

Rick Courtright wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Found this interesting:
>
> http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business...18TDY08008.htm
>
I don't understand why they want to rebrand and sell the loser's car?
Fortunately California buyers know better and are buying Fit in droves.
I rarely see Yaris. I hope it stays this way.

Hi,

> I don't understand why they want to rebrand and sell the loser's car?

"Loser?" What's your definition?

> Fortunately California buyers know better and are buying Fit in droves.
> I rarely see Yaris. I hope it stays this way.

I spend up to 150 mi/day on SoCal freeways. So far, I've seen ONE Fit
out there. Where are these "droves?"

Methinks you're hung up in the "Ford-Chevy" thing of years past, just
inserting the current top two. Honda makes good cars. Toyota makes good
cars. It's a matter of preference at the consumer level.

At the manufacturing level, I'm sure Subaru looked at the "best deal"
for them. Let's face it, much as most of us like our Subies, FHI isn't a
car mfr of large enough size or status to tell anybody "how it's gonna
be," and Toyota, on track to be the largest auto mfr in the world, who
IS, has benefited in the past from joint ventures (think NUMMI w/
General Motors!) and appears to continue in that vein. Remember, they
purchased a chunk of GM's former interest in FHI recently, and also
moved into the Isuzu side of Subaru's Indiana plant for extra capacity
to build Camries. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ring any
bells?

Rick

Rick Courtright wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > I don't understand why they want to rebrand and sell the loser's car?
>
> "Loser?" What's your definition?
>
> > Fortunately California buyers know better and are buying Fit in droves.
> > I rarely see Yaris. I hope it stays this way.
>
> I spend up to 150 mi/day on SoCal freeways. So far, I've seen ONE Fit
> out there. Where are these "droves?"
>
> Methinks you're hung up in the "Ford-Chevy" thing of years past, just
> inserting the current top two. Honda makes good cars. Toyota makes good
> cars. It's a matter of preference at the consumer level.

Hmm, lets's see Honda Fit 228 points and 1st place finish,
Toyolet Yaris 185 points and 4th place finish behind kia rio and nissan
versa.

>
> At the manufacturing level, I'm sure Subaru looked at the "best deal"
> for them. Let's face it, much as most of us like our Subies, FHI isn't a
> car mfr of large enough size or status to tell anybody "how it's gonna
> be," and Toyota, on track to be the largest auto mfr in the world, who
> IS, has benefited in the past from joint ventures (think NUMMI w/
> General Motors!) and appears to continue in that vein. Remember, they
> purchased a chunk of GM's former interest in FHI recently, and also
> moved into the Isuzu side of Subaru's Indiana plant for extra capacity
> to build Camries. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ring any
> bells?
>
No argument here. Plants are expensive to build. R&D is expensive.
What is not?

Hi,

> Hmm, lets's see Honda Fit 228 points and 1st place finish,
> Toyolet Yaris 185 points and 4th place finish behind kia rio and nissan
> versa.

Who gave these points? Sounds like a magazine. Don't know about the rest
of you, but I learned a LONG time ago NEVER judge a car by a magazine
rating. Or was it the likes of J.D. Powers? Again, these survey
companies can be publishing rather sketchy info, based on WHO bothered
to respond. I, personally, have never bothered answering their
questionnaires. As a result, some BAD cars got no additional input from
me, but then, neither did some GOOD ones. I'm sure I'm in company with
millions of other buyers.

Both cars in question, the Fit and Yaris, are virtually brand new. It
will take a coupla years to shake 'em out and see how they stack up
then...

Rick

Rick Courtright wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Hmm, lets's see Honda Fit 228 points and 1st place finish,
> > Toyolet Yaris 185 points and 4th place finish behind kia rio and nissan
> > versa.
>
> Who gave these points? Sounds like a magazine. Don't know about the rest
> of you, but I learned a LONG time ago NEVER judge a car by a magazine
> rating. Or was it the likes of J.D. Powers? Again, these survey

Silly me. Never proofreading my posts. That was Car and Driver.
Fit was the only car with a decent standard gearbox in comparo.
Suspension in Yaris is much softer according to C&D.
Maybe it come useful to the Ford and GM employees
who are prematurely retiring? Who knows.
I expect that Fit would fare better with the younger crowd though.

Who is JD Power? Sounds like a rap band.

Rick Courtright <rcourtright@iname.com> wrote:
> Anyway, some other surfing led to a note that 37% of European auto sales
> are now diesels.

In many countries the value is much higher. Portugal and France (two
that I know about) have passed 50%. And that is an average of the whole
market, influenced by the smaller cars where the diesel advantage is
not very big and where gasoline engines are still being sold.

I have read that in cars like Toyota Corollas and bigger ones the Diesel
percentage can be 90%. Note that part of the reason for this choice is
performance. The turbo diesels are getting around 85 HP/litre while many
naturally-aspirated gasoline engines have less than that (and increasing
displacement is an expensive option in some countries because of taxes).

Of course there are turbo gasoline engines, but those have very high
consumption (a turbo gasoline must have lower compression ratio =
less efficiency). There is now a new technology, turbo gasoline engines
with direct injection (VW, BMW/Peugeot), but the results might not be
good enough to invert the tendency.

> Maybe this is
> another way for Subaru to get a good deal on some diesel technology?

Subaru will have a boxer diesel (next year, I think). Most of the
technology (injectors, pumps, ECUs, etc) can be bought from Bosch and
other suppliers. I don't know if there are Japanese suppliers with the
same level of technology (in Japan diesel engines are still not used much).

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/

..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94