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Discuss Subaru Brake Squeal in the alt.autos.subaru forum at Car Dealer Forums; "Carl 1 Lucky Texan" <alckytxn@swbell.not> wrote in message news:8HBKg.15014$%j7.9240@newssvr29.news.prodigy.n et... > Blair Baucom wrote: >> ...
  1. #11
    Blair Baucom
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    "Carl 1 Lucky Texan" <alckytxn@swbell.not> wrote in message
    news:8HBKg.15014$%j7.9240@newssvr29.news.prodigy.n et...
    > Blair Baucom wrote:
    >> Over in the Ford truck group it was discussed that sometimes the brake
    >> lines to a single wheel would delaminate inside and would act as a check
    >> valve allowing brake fluid to flow out to the caliper and when pressure
    >> was released the fluid would maintain pressure not allowing the caliper
    >> to release causing the brake to squeak.
    >>
    >> You can search alt.trucks.ford
    >>
    >> Not a common occurrence, but it looks like you have exhausted all of the
    >> more common ones.
    >>
    >> Blair
    >>
    >> <webstericehockey@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1157287169.598395.50850@i3g2000cwc.googlegrou ps.com...
    >>
    >>>Vanguard- Thanks for the advice, but I stated above that I replaced the
    >>>old caliper with a remanufactured caliper and the squealing persists.
    >>>Likewise, there is anti-rattle compound (really sticky stuff) on the
    >>>back of the pad so that the pad is literally "attached" to the new
    >>>caliper piston.
    >>>
    >>>Blair- Delaminated brake hose? Can you explain?
    >>>
    >>>Carl- When I assesed this problem for the first time, I went in there
    >>>to replace a Constant Velocity Joint. I did not notice any debris on
    >>>the dust pan, but afterwards, the dustpan was contacting the rotor just
    >>>a little bit and was blatantly obvious, so I bent the dustpan back so
    >>>there was no more contact. and yet the squealing is still there. Thanks
    >>>again Carl.
    >>>
    >>>Obviously, the high pitched squeal is caused by the brake pad touching
    >>>ever so slightly on the rotor, meaning that something is not releasing
    >>>properly. This does not make sense, however, because the whole assembly
    >>>is floating (rotors, brakes). Yet, I cant fathom why a bad wheel
    >>>bearing would make a extremely high pitched noise.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > You are correct and, I've been told, hydraulic in general can have
    > 'flappers' inside that cause a check valve-type behvavior. Worth
    > considering but I'd still expect the offending brake system to wear
    > unevenly and produce heat.
    >
    > I dunno
    >
    >
    > Carl
    >
    >
    > --
    > to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)


    Defiantly should produce heat. If it is bad enough, you should be able to
    raise car off of the ground and have someone press the brake and release,
    and should be able to feel a difference between the drag on one that is
    working and the one that possibly does not release.

    Blair





    › See More: Subaru Brake Squeal

  2. #12
    Jim L
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    Well, finally someone with the same problem as mine. I have been fighting
    this for a year with my daughters 97 Legacy sedan. The symptoms are
    identical with the exception of one thing. It doesn't always do it. I've
    had the wheel, caliper and pads off and put anti-squeel goo on the pads. I
    thought I got the wrong wheel so I took all four wheels apart and did the
    same thing. I checked all the backing plates for clearance to no avail.
    There is no abnormal wear on the rotors or pads. It seldom does it when I
    am driving, but it drives my daughter nuts as she drives it everyday. If we
    come up with any answers here, I would be most interested.

    Regards and Good Luck

    "Blair Baucom" <jbbaucom@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:KdSdnfEQmMbP3GfZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@insightbb.co m...
    > Also delamination of the brake hose can cause the piston not to return.
    >
    > Blair
    >
    > "Vanguard" <vanguard.news@yahooNIX.com> wrote in message
    > news:baydneDNPeqXpWfZnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
    >> <webstericehockey@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1157244152.866720.90780@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
    >>> Well, I've read up a lot on this subject and I'm getting mixed answers:
    >>>
    >>> I have a 1995 Subaru Legacy Wagon with 4 Wheel Drive and ABS. A month
    >>> ago, the left disk brake brake started squealing. Its a really high
    >>> pitch squeal and only occurs when my foot is off the brake and occurs
    >>> regardless of speed (Ive had it squeal anywhere from low speed to
    >>> highway speed driving). When I apply the brake, the sound goes away.
    >>> Likewise, when i turn the wheel left or right, the squeal gets softer
    >>> or louder. Also, the squeal occurs randomly (drive to costco no
    >>> squealing but on the way back squealed badly). The squeal also
    >>> increases as the speed increases; say from 0-20 mph
    >>> squeak-squeak-squeak and at 40mph just sounds like one constant loud,
    >>> high pitched squeal.
    >>>
    >>> Here's the maintenance Ive done:
    >>> -Brand new master cylinder, new brake rotor, new brake pads, and a new
    >>> brake caliper (all remanufactured)
    >>> -Applied disk brake anti-rattle but brakes still squealed, took wheel
    >>> off to inspect and noticed that the anti-rattle compound had gotten
    >>> onto the anti-rattle spring (anti-rattle is really sticky stuff), so I
    >>> completely cleaned off the pad and anti-rattle springs w/ denatured
    >>> alcohol and applied high-temp silicon brake lubricant on anti-rattle
    >>> spring (the part where the pad moves in and out) , but the squeal
    >>> actually got worse.
    >>>
    >>> Here are a few things I've heard that solve this problem, but need
    >>> verification, please:
    >>> -Bad or failing hub bearing (I read that this makes more of a grinding
    >>> noise, not squealing)
    >>> -Dust cover/plate on back of rotor (Ive checked for contact, but I dont
    >>> see any)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> As you can see, ive spent a lot of unnecessary time and money on this
    >>> project, and at this point have run out of ideas. ANY help or comments
    >>> would help TREMENDOUSLY. Thanks.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Could be the caliber piston isn't getting pushed all the way back. That
    >> is, you release the brake pedal but the piston doesn't move all the way
    >> back so the pads are still slightly riding on the rotor. Could be rust on
    >> the piston, the seal on it that's gotten stiff with age, or rust on the
    >> sliding pin so the caliber doesn't slide on that side so the pads are at
    >> a slight angle and might be riding the rotor (I've got that now and will
    >> have to see if I can clean it or have to replace with a rebuilt caliber).
    >> My mom's Subie had the squeal when the pedal was released which the shop
    >> didn't find the first time until I got the guy to ride in the car so I
    >> show exactly under what condition the squeal occurred in a big empty
    >> parking lot. They then found a pebble stuck in the pad.

    >
    >




  3. #13
    webstericehockey@gmail.com
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    Blair -Thanks, I'll have to try that method. When i first start the
    car, i can hear the brake pad contacting, without my foot on the brake
    (its like the sound one gets while driving with a very light rust on
    the rotor). Not sure if that helps, though.

    Jim- I know exactly what your daughter is going through. The sound is
    so annoying and makes everyone turn heads to see where it is coming
    from. However, I am experiencing your same problem. The breaks squeal
    completely at random. I drove 10 miles to the store and had absolutely
    no squeal on the way there, but on the way back, it really started to
    squeal.

    Things I've noticed:
    - The squeal occurs very randomly, usually inbetween the brake pad's
    respective "cold" and "hot" range; although the squeal came driving at
    65 mph highway speed. Other times, the brakes start squealing at the
    first stopsign in my neighborhood.
    - The squeal is a very metal-on-metal high pitched squeal, indicating
    that "whatever" is touching is contacting very slightly
    - The squeal goes away when I apply brakes.
    - The squeal changes tone and/or disappears while turning, even a very
    slight turn.

    - Somtimes I can make the squeaking noise by slowly releasing the brake
    while coming off of a red light / stop sign. The squeak generally
    increases with speed, turning into a constant whaling at high speeds,
    say 40 mph.


    Out of all the brake problems I've seen, this one takes the cake.


  4. #14
    webstericehockey@gmail.com
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    Sorry for the double post, but i forgot to include one last thing:

    This problem started when Advance Auto gave me the wrong size pads
    for my Subaru. They were just 1-2 mm too big so I took 1 anti-rattle
    spring out to accomodate. Things generally went downhill from there.
    The brake pedal went to the floor, and there was a signifigant
    reduction in braking power. So, I replaced the master cylinder, but
    that didnt help.I replaced the oversized pads with the correct size
    pads, and a few days later, the squeaking began.
    Suspecting that the rotor had gotten bent due to the oversized
    brake pads getting stuck in place (which i suspected was the reason
    that the brake pedal was going to the floor), i replaced the old rotor
    with a new rotor. Then i noticed an uneven wear pattern on the
    squeaking rotor (Left Side Disk Brake) so I figured that the caliper
    had gotten bent (somehow). Then I replaced the caliper, and the
    abnormal wear pattern was fixed but the squealing persisted. Now here I
    am.


    The ONLY things I have not replaced in the entire braking system are
    the brake hoses and the Caliper Support Bracket. I just dont see how
    the forces involved in braking with oversized pads could possibly have
    bent the caliper support bracket. Obviously something wierd/ambiguous
    is wrong with my left disk brake, and im just hoping it doesnt have
    anything to do with the steering knuckle or wheel bearing.

    Thanks a lot for the advice.


  5. #15
    Jim L
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    One thing I did emediately before the squealing started was replace the back
    brake pads and had the rotors turned. The pads had been overheated and were
    alittle burn't looking (both sides) The rotors had some slight surface
    looking irregularities from the heat, but they turned out with just 10
    thousanths off. I would normally not turn rotors, but this car only has 30K
    on it. The previous owner lived on a hill and rode the brakes all the way
    to the bottom. I think it is the right rear that is causing it, seems wierd
    since turns seems to make it worse. Braking does make it stop, but it has
    to be a reasonably good stop. Gradualy applying the brake make not stop it.

    Regards, Jim


    <webstericehockey@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1157305703.004158.89210@m73g2000cwd.googlegro ups.com...
    > Blair -Thanks, I'll have to try that method. When i first start the
    > car, i can hear the brake pad contacting, without my foot on the brake
    > (its like the sound one gets while driving with a very light rust on
    > the rotor). Not sure if that helps, though.
    >
    > Jim- I know exactly what your daughter is going through. The sound is
    > so annoying and makes everyone turn heads to see where it is coming
    > from. However, I am experiencing your same problem. The breaks squeal
    > completely at random. I drove 10 miles to the store and had absolutely
    > no squeal on the way there, but on the way back, it really started to
    > squeal.
    >
    > Things I've noticed:
    > - The squeal occurs very randomly, usually inbetween the brake pad's
    > respective "cold" and "hot" range; although the squeal came driving at
    > 65 mph highway speed. Other times, the brakes start squealing at the
    > first stopsign in my neighborhood.
    > - The squeal is a very metal-on-metal high pitched squeal, indicating
    > that "whatever" is touching is contacting very slightly
    > - The squeal goes away when I apply brakes.
    > - The squeal changes tone and/or disappears while turning, even a very
    > slight turn.
    >
    > - Somtimes I can make the squeaking noise by slowly releasing the brake
    > while coming off of a red light / stop sign. The squeak generally
    > increases with speed, turning into a constant whaling at high speeds,
    > say 40 mph.
    >
    >
    > Out of all the brake problems I've seen, this one takes the cake.
    >




  6. #16
    rd
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal


    I had this problem on my 99 OBW. One "cure" that works for a while is
    to remove the pads on the offending wheel (mine was rear left) and
    grind a 45 deg angle on the edges with a file. I ended up with about
    1/8" lip all around the pad. Then I roughed up the disk rotor with a
    disk sander with a 120 grit pad to lightly scratch the surface. I also
    roughed up the pads slightly.
    I'm not sure which step solved the problem, but it worked for quite a
    while. Now the noise is starting to come back, so I suspect I need to
    repeat the procedure.
    I think what's happening is my wife drives the car lightly and
    doesn't hit the brakes hard at any point so they end up glazing the
    pads and rotor.
    One thing to try before doing the above is to bring the car to a few
    "hard" stops, one right after the other so the pads/rotors get hot and
    the glaze gets removed.



  7. #17
    Carl 1 Lucky Texan
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    rd wrote:
    > I had this problem on my 99 OBW. One "cure" that works for a while is
    > to remove the pads on the offending wheel (mine was rear left) and
    > grind a 45 deg angle on the edges with a file. I ended up with about
    > 1/8" lip all around the pad. Then I roughed up the disk rotor with a
    > disk sander with a 120 grit pad to lightly scratch the surface. I also
    > roughed up the pads slightly.
    > I'm not sure which step solved the problem, but it worked for quite a
    > while. Now the noise is starting to come back, so I suspect I need to
    > repeat the procedure.
    > I think what's happening is my wife drives the car lightly and
    > doesn't hit the brakes hard at any point so they end up glazing the
    > pads and rotor.
    > One thing to try before doing the above is to bring the car to a few
    > "hard" stops, one right after the other so the pads/rotors get hot and
    > the glaze gets removed.
    >
    >


    As for the treatment of the brakes after re-assembling (or, indeed,
    after replacing pads) check the tech paper at stoptech. good info there
    I believe;
    http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml


    Carl


    --
    to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

  8. #18
    k. ote
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    webstericehockey@gmail.com wrote:

    > -Dust cover/plate on back of rotor (Ive checked for contact, but I dont
    > see any)


    Careful: if you've got it up on a lift, it's possible that you may not
    notice any contact with the dust shield. Look for kinks, bends, or other
    imperfections. If it appeared to be in contact once, it's possible it still
    is.

    The various weight affecting it in that other fellow's car is precisely the
    symptom I had with my old '02 WRX. It was a dust shield in all cases that
    was generating the noise.


  9. #19
    webstericehockey@gmail.com
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal

    rd- Thanks for the insight, but im not sure i want to permanently grind
    new pads and rotors.

    Carl- thanks for the the website. I tried a series of high-speed stops
    (a series being 2; the website reccomends 10 high speed stops) and it
    fixed the problem for a few minutes, but came back again.

    k. ote- I cant believe i did not think of that. I inspected it on a
    scissor jack. Im going to go out and look to see if there is any
    contact with the dust plate.


    Thanks a lot for the help.


  10. #20
    bicknd
    Guest

    Default Re: Subaru Brake Squeal


    webstericehockey@gmail.com wrote:
    > rd- Thanks for the insight, but im not sure i want to permanently grind
    > new pads and rotors.
    >
    > Carl- thanks for the the website. I tried a series of high-speed stops
    > (a series being 2; the website reccomends 10 high speed stops) and it
    > fixed the problem for a few minutes, but came back again.
    >
    > k. ote- I cant believe i did not think of that. I inspected it on a
    > scissor jack. Im going to go out and look to see if there is any
    > contact with the dust plate.
    >
    >
    > Thanks a lot for the help.



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