Short and sweet;

I understand some people's dislike of ABS, so I leave that to you.

I used to be involved in car crash testing and structural integrity.

In an accident with another car or object, there are two collisions, the "primary" collision
and the "secondary" collision.

In the primary collision, there is usually no damage to the occupants of the car
(there are exceptions of course like legs being crushed, etc.). But in most accidents,
it is the secondary collision which causes most personal damage or death.

Secondary collision is when the occupants of the vehicle continue moving forward
at the same speed the car was traveling before the car was slowed down or
stopped by the collision and smash into the part of the car in front of them inside
the car. The dashboard, the windshield, even the seat belts.

Seat belts help, but if you imagine being held in the air suspended by your seat
belts with you facing downwards, imagine how your body would start to feel and
sustain damage when your weight is multiplied by 10 to over 40 times. At a
deceleration at 10G's (10 times your weight), a 175 pound person feels like
they have almost 1600 pounds crushing them into the seat belts. At a higher
speed collision producing 40G's, the force is almost 7000 pounds against
the belts. Not a healthy situation.

One of the men in our company was in an accident which was later computed
to have produced almost 50G's. He had his seat belts on and sustained, among
other things, 2 completely crushed and broken hips from the seat belts.

Air bags work because they provide a barrier between the car interior and your
body and they spread the impact forces over a larger area of your body, rather
than just the contacts points of a seatbelt.

If you total your car because of the air bag costs, then at least they probably
saved you or a passenger from being seriously harmed or even "totalled".

Before disconnecting the air bags, consider that you may have passenger(s) or
have loaned the car to another person when an accident might occur. You are
making a choice about their safety as well as yours.

If you have an accident, you don't have to install new air bags (as far as I
know, legally?) and then you can decide what to do with the car. Just please
don't sell it to someone else without their knowing that the air bags have
been blown.

Just my two cents worth,

The Ole Factory Rep (not Subaru)

P.S. I won't even go into the story of an acquaintance down in the South who
said, when seat belts became mandatory, "I'd rather be thrown clear" (of the car
in an accident). I think they are still looking for his body<g>.

On 24 Aug, 06:18, <R...@factory.invalid> wrote:
> Short and sweet;
>
> I understand some people's dislike of ABS, so I leave that to you.
>
> I used to be involved in car crash testing and structural integrity.
>
> In an accident with another car or object, there are two collisions, the "primary" collision
> and the "secondary" collision.
>
> In the primary collision, there is usually no damage to the occupants of the car
> (there are exceptions of course like legs being crushed, etc.). But in most accidents,
> it is the secondary collision which causes most personal damage or death.
>
> Secondary collision is when the occupants of the vehicle continue moving forward
> at the same speed the car was traveling before the car was slowed down or
> stopped by the collision and smash into the part of the car in front of them inside
> the car. The dashboard, the windshield, even the seat belts.
>
> Seat belts help, but if you imagine being held in the air suspended by your seat
> belts with you facing downwards, imagine how your body would start to feel and
> sustain damage when your weight is multiplied by 10 to over 40 times. At a
> deceleration at 10G's (10 times your weight), a 175 pound person feels like
> they have almost 1600 pounds crushing them into the seat belts. At a higher
> speed collision producing 40G's, the force is almost 7000 pounds against
> the belts. Not a healthy situation.
>
> One of the men in our company was in an accident which was later computed
> to have produced almost 50G's. He had his seat belts on and sustained, among
> other things, 2 completely crushed and broken hips from the seat belts.
>
> Air bags work because they provide a barrier between the car interior and your
> body and they spread the impact forces over a larger area of your body, rather
> than just the contacts points of a seatbelt.
>
> If you total your car because of the air bag costs, then at least they probably
> saved you or a passenger from being seriously harmed or even "totalled".
>
> Before disconnecting the air bags, consider that you may have passenger(s) or
> have loaned the car to another person when an accident might occur. You are
> making a choice about their safety as well as yours.
>
> If you have an accident, you don't have to install new air bags (as far as I
> know, legally?) and then you can decide what to do with the car. Just please
> don't sell it to someone else without their knowing that the air bags have
> been blown.
>
> Just my two cents worth,
>
> The Ole Factory Rep (not Subaru)
>
> P.S. I won't even go into the story of an acquaintance down in the South who
> said, when seat belts became mandatory, "I'd rather be thrown clear" (of the car
> in an accident). I think they are still looking for his body<g>.

My first car when I was 16 developed a malfunctioning saftey latch on
the drivers door. It slosed and stayed shut, but would open if you
leaned against it. I could make it work by working the inside lever
and outside one at the same time. I put seat belts in when they
started to come out in new cars. One time when distracted and pouring
rain, I forgot to dod the fix. Skidded in a turn with New tires on the
car, that must not have been good in the rain. I was thrown against
the door, it opened, and I was trying to steer looking Under the door.
My friend was trying to grab the wheel, but my feet were in his face.
A guy who just rolled his Corvair on a circle, was walking up the
road, and commented how well I handled the skid.(???) I fixed the lock
after that, or made sure I didn't have anything wrong with a car I
was driving, that I wasn't aware of or couldn't compensate for. I
Wouldn't want to take my chances being thrown out of a car. To me
Avoiding contact is the best way to go.

Why do race cars have harneses, instead of air bags? Is it because
above 50mph total impact speed AB's are useless? How many injuries do
they cause, and how many seat distance and weight sensors are they
going to have to add to the seats so the AB's don't do more damage
than Not having them?

VF

> Why do race cars have harneses, instead of air bags? Is it because
> above 50mph total impact speed AB's are useless? How many injuries do
> they cause, and how many seat distance and weight sensors are they
> going to have to add to the seats so the AB's don't do more damage
> than Not having them?

These items are removed from race cars in the interests of saving
weight. Also, 'pure' racecars are designed to protect a driver ONLY
and they typically don't care what that protection looks like. For
example, complete roll cages tied in to the chassis (not simply an
added rollbar); doors welded shut; no glass in the side windows; etc.
Many of them also have the HANS device, which holds their neck in
place to prevent a whiplash of the sort that killed Dale Earnhart.
>From an ABS perspective, it's purely a sensitivity issue - race
drivers can modulate their brakes MUCH better than non-race drivers.
Remember, this is their JOB, it's all they do..... And the number of
times in a race where they have to perform a panic stop - where ABS
benefits - is very limited. You keep asking questions about racecars,
and that has NO bearing on what you want to do to your own car.

I'll certainly be more careful driving through Philly! ;-)

Dan D
'99 Impreza RS2.5 (son's)
Central NJ USA

On 24 Aug, 16:41, Dano58 <dan.dibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why do race cars have harneses, instead of air bags? Is it because
> > above 50mph total impact speed AB's are useless? How many injuries do
> > they cause, and how many seat distance and weight sensors are they
> > going to have to add to the seats so the AB's don't do more damage
> > than Not having them?
>
> These items are removed from race cars in the interests of saving
> weight. Also, 'pure' racecars are designed to protect a driver ONLY
> and they typically don't care what that protection looks like. For
> example, complete roll cages tied in to the chassis (not simply an
> added rollbar); doors welded shut; no glass in the side windows; etc.
> Many of them also have the HANS device, which holds their neck in
> place to prevent a whiplash of the sort that killed Dale Earnhart.>From an ABS perspective, it's purely a sensitivity issue - race
>
> drivers can modulate their brakes MUCH better than non-race drivers.
> Remember, this is their JOB, it's all they do..... And the number of
> times in a race where they have to perform a panic stop - where ABS
> benefits - is very limited. You keep asking questions about racecars,
> and that has NO bearing on what you want to do to your own car.
>
> I'll certainly be more careful driving through Philly! ;-)
>
> Dan D
> '99 Impreza RS2.5 (son's)
> Central NJ USA

me also.)) It's a mad house with crazies making U turns from between
parked cars in the center of the main street. My fav was at night, in
the rain, from Behind a van, with a car next to, and behind me and Not
far in front. Now I drive in th Rt lane when I can, or get ready to
brake when I pass an opening between the parked cars, and only have to
worry about people opening car doors all the way and not looking
first.

Driving late at night is SO much less stressful, except for the cars
and trucks with High sitting lights, High beams on, ones out of
allignment, Fog/driving lights on in a city that is SO Bright you can
forget to turn yours on. Makes little difference with seeing. I had an
injury that affected my vision, and was thinking of putting Tint on my
Front and back windows. I settled for it on my Rear view mirror, and
picked up a day/nite one for the Sube, since the model doesn't come
with it. My eyes don't burn and feel like they had sand in them like
they used to, but I'll block the light with my arm raised, peaking
through my fingers or under my arm. Did I mention that I Didn't like
Daytime Running lights? Mine will be disconnected. Parking lights
would do the job.

When I had all my abilities, and someone oncoming wouldn't shut their
high beams off. I would drift towards them to wake them up. I Couldn't
See...))) I do it once in a while now, when I feel I can do it safely.

On 24 Aug, 16:41, Dano58 <dan.dibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why do race cars have harneses, instead of air bags? Is it because
> > above 50mph total impact speed AB's are useless? How many injuries do
> > they cause, and how many seat distance and weight sensors are they
> > going to have to add to the seats so the AB's don't do more damage
> > than Not having them?
>
> These items are removed from race cars in the interests of saving
> weight. Also, 'pure' racecars are designed to protect a driver ONLY
> and they typically don't care what that protection looks like. For
> example, complete roll cages tied in to the chassis (not simply an
> added rollbar); doors welded shut; no glass in the side windows; etc.
> Many of them also have the HANS device, which holds their neck in
> place to prevent a whiplash of the sort that killed Dale Earnhart.>From an ABS perspective, it's purely a sensitivity issue - race
>
> drivers can modulate their brakes MUCH better than non-race drivers.
> Remember, this is their JOB, it's all they do..... And the number of
> times in a race where they have to perform a panic stop - where ABS
> benefits - is very limited. You keep asking questions about racecars,
> and that has NO bearing on what you want to do to your own car.
>
> I'll certainly be more careful driving through Philly! ;-)
>
> Dan D
> '99 Impreza RS2.5 (son's)
> Central NJ USA

You mean Sube's aren't safe? I heard that EMT's had to be told to use
the "Jaws of Life" to cut people out of them. Don't plan to be going
200, but I didn't go to a dealer till I saw the 5th Gear Vid on You
Tube about the Leitchfeild T-25 Impreza, The dealer in England that
mods them and have a top speed of 175. Naa... even when I was 100%, I
wouldn't think of that.)) Handling is the thing.

Well, I'll do my own testing with ABS and without. I Still think I
Only want it on the rear wheels. My experiences tell me that's what I
want, and the harness. Have to see how good the tires are in the wet.

On 24 Aug, 16:41, Dano58 <dan.dibi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why do race cars have harneses, instead of air bags? Is it because
> > above 50mph total impact speed AB's are useless? How many injuries do
> > they cause, and how many seat distance and weight sensors are they
> > going to have to add to the seats so the AB's don't do more damage
> > than Not having them?
>
> These items are removed from race cars in the interests of saving
> weight. Also, 'pure' racecars are designed to protect a driver ONLY
> and they typically don't care what that protection looks like. For
> example, complete roll cages tied in to the chassis (not simply an
> added rollbar); doors welded shut; no glass in the side windows; etc.
> Many of them also have the HANS device, which holds their neck in
> place to prevent a whiplash of the sort that killed Dale Earnhart.>From an ABS perspective, it's purely a sensitivity issue - race
>
> drivers can modulate their brakes MUCH better than non-race drivers.
> Remember, this is their JOB, it's all they do..... And the number of
> times in a race where they have to perform a panic stop - where ABS
> benefits - is very limited. You keep asking questions about racecars,
> and that has NO bearing on what you want to do to your own car.
>
> I'll certainly be more careful driving through Philly! ;-)
>
> Dan D
> '99 Impreza RS2.5 (son's)
> Central NJ USA

LOL... Just saw you were in Central NJ. I'll give you a heads up if I
venture that way.)) I do mostly PA and S. NJ. If you are in Philly,
you probably won't be able to miss my wagon. Hopefully it will have
the, 85' Mustang SVO Recaro seats that I bought for it in it. The ones
with ALL the adjustments, and NO air bags. though the side ones sound
ok.))

VF

Rep@factory.invalid wrote:

>Air bags work because they provide a barrier between the car interior and your
>body and they spread the impact forces over a larger area of your body, rather
>than just the contacts points of a seatbelt.

Depends on the kind of accident. Run into a bridge abutment and you
will be glad you have bags. Get into a situation where you hit a
lighter car and the bag might break both your arms while you are
still moving -- and wishing you could steer.