I bought a 2000 Sienna three years ago at 20,000 miles. It now has
50,000 miles, and literally two days before putting the van on a ship
to move from Hawaii to Texas, it starts spewing white smoke on
start-up. I searched the internet and found out about the online
petition to make Toyota recall these vehicles because of sludge
(gellation?) problems. I don't know anything about cars, and I know
that a little learning is a dangerous thing, which is why I've always
followed the instructions to change the oil, etc., to the letter.

My questions are:

1) What exactly is causing the smoke? In other words, what is sludge,
where does it come from, what does it have to do with oil, and why does
it only happen on start up and during acceleration (e.g., when
overtaking on the freeway, etc.)?

2) No engine lights go on, so does this mean there isn't anything wrong
with the car? (I know, obviously there's something wrong, but if so,
why no engine lights?)

3) What should I watch out for? If the engine is burning up oil, then I
assume I should keep a close eye on the oil level, but is there
anything else?

4) Is it really true that it's okay to drive the car like this? (Aside
from all the dirty stares I get from other drives caught in the goddamn
contrail I leave behind...) Will it really not affect the engine, as
long as I keep the oil levels high enough?

5) If/when I do have to fix this, does it really have to cost $5,000+?
Is there any other way to take care of this?

Thanks,
Marc

"Marc Adler" <marc.adler@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161039045.817410.182560@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>I bought a 2000 Sienna three years ago at 20,000 miles. It now has
> 50,000 miles, and literally two days before putting the van on a ship
> to move from Hawaii to Texas, it starts spewing white smoke on
> start-up. I searched the internet and found out about the online
> petition to make Toyota recall these vehicles because of sludge
> (gellation?) problems. I don't know anything about cars, and I know
> that a little learning is a dangerous thing, which is why I've always
> followed the instructions to change the oil, etc., to the letter.

I think it is called "oil gelling."

>
> My questions are:
>
> 1) What exactly is causing the smoke? In other words, what is sludge,
> where does it come from, what does it have to do with oil, and why does
> it only happen on start up and during acceleration (e.g., when
> overtaking on the freeway, etc.)?

Without actually seeing the smoke, it is difficult to tell what the cause is
for sure.

White smoke is generally a sign that coolant has gotten into the combustion
chambers.

Blue or blue-grey smoke is generally a sign that the engine is burning oil.
This smoke does tend be more noticeable on startus and during acceleration.

Black smoke is generally a sign that the engine is not burning all of the
fuel entering the combustion chamber.

>
> 2) No engine lights go on, so does this mean there isn't anything wrong
> with the car? (I know, obviously there's something wrong, but if so,
> why no engine lights?)

The "check engine" light is more to warn the operator that an emissions
component is not working properly. Not all parts of the vehicle are
monitored by sensors.

Unfortunately, if clouds of smoke are visible from the tailpipe, then
something is probably wrong.

>
> 3) What should I watch out for? If the engine is burning up oil, then I
> assume I should keep a close eye on the oil level, but is there
> anything else?

Keep an eye on the oil level, make sure it does not take on a milky
appearance.

Also keep an eye on the coolant level, make sure it does not take on an oily
appearance.

>
> 4) Is it really true that it's okay to drive the car like this? (Aside
> from all the dirty stares I get from other drives caught in the goddamn
> contrail I leave behind...) Will it really not affect the engine, as
> long as I keep the oil levels high enough?

The clouds of smoke will not cause you to be stranded on the side of the
road, as long as oil level, oil pressure, and coolant levels are OK,
however, the O2 sensors and catalytic converter will eventually get
contaminated, you will get a check engine lights, and if that happens, the
vehicle will not pass an emissions test.

>
> 5) If/when I do have to fix this, does it really have to cost $5,000+?
> Is there any other way to take care of this?
>
> Thanks,
> Marc

A new engine can easily cost $5,000. If you have all of your oil change
receipts, the car may be covered by a special policy adjustment. Take it to
a Toyota dealer for evaluation.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

In article <1161039045.817410.182560@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups .com>
marc.adler@gmail.com "Marc Adler" writes:

> I bought a 2000 Sienna three years ago at 20,000 miles. It now
> has 50,000 miles, and literally two days before putting the van
> on a ship to move from Hawaii to Texas, it starts spewing white
> smoke on start-up. [...]
>
> 1) What exactly is causing the smoke? [...]

Maybe they had to elect a new Pope. Clearly the first vote was
successful, else you'd have got black smoke.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. But I did keep it non-political. Good
luck with the Sienna, BTW.)
--
Andrew Stephenson

On Oct 16, 6:25 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

> Also keep an eye on the coolant level, make sure it does not take on an oily
> appearance.

How do I check the coolant level?

> A new engine can easily cost $5,000. If you have all of your oil change
> receipts, the car may be covered by a special policy adjustment. Take it to
> a Toyota dealer for evaluation.

And if I don't have all my oil change receipts, and I do wind up having
to buy a new engine, is there some sort of consolation? Will I be able
to drive the car that much longer? Will the odometer return to 000000?
<g> In other words, is there any kind of silver lining to the black
cloud of having to replace the engine?

Marc

"Marc Adler" <marc.adler@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161114837.838599.292210@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> On Oct 16, 6:25 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> Also keep an eye on the coolant level, make sure it does not take on an
>> oily
>> appearance.
>
> How do I check the coolant level?

Open the hood and look at the coolant overflow bottle. It is a white
translucent plastic bottle, I think on the passenger side of the engine
compartment. There are probably 2 different white translucent plastic
bottles on the passenger side of the engine compartment- one where just the
neck is visible for the windshield washer fluid and one where you can see
the entire bottle. It should be connected to the radiator neck with a black
rubber tube.

If it has genuine Toyota coolant, the coolant should be translucent red, and
if it has aftermarket coolant , then it should be a translucent
yellowish-green. The coolant overflow bottle has "cold" and "hot" markings,
and the coolant should be above the "cold" mark.

>
>> A new engine can easily cost $5,000. If you have all of your oil change
>> receipts, the car may be covered by a special policy adjustment. Take it
>> to
>> a Toyota dealer for evaluation.
>
> And if I don't have all my oil change receipts, and I do wind up having
> to buy a new engine, is there some sort of consolation? Will I be able
> to drive the car that much longer? Will the odometer return to 000000?
> <g> In other words, is there any kind of silver lining to the black
> cloud of having to replace the engine?
>
> Marc
>

The consolation in a new engine that you pay for is that you get a new
engine that will perform like, well, a new engine, and the heads are
designed to be a little more tolerant of "extended" oil change intervals.

BTW, you do not need all of your oil change receipts, just enough to prove
that you took reasonable care of the engine. The dealership will probably
want you to authorize some dollar amount, probably around $200 or so, for
removal of a valve cover for inspection to see if it qualifies for the
special policy adjustment. If it does not qualify, you can have them put
the valve cover back on and just keep driving, or you can have them fix it
on your ticket.

In either case, they will probably transfer stuff from the old engine, like
the alternator, AC compressor, power steering pump, etc. and you may have to
pay for new belts, and stuff like that.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On 17 Oct 2006 12:53:58 -0700, "Marc Adler" <marc.adler@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 16, 6:25 pm, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> Also keep an eye on the coolant level, make sure it does not take on an oily
>> appearance.
>
>How do I check the coolant level?
>
>> A new engine can easily cost $5,000. If you have all of your oil change
>> receipts, the car may be covered by a special policy adjustment. Take it to
>> a Toyota dealer for evaluation.
>
>And if I don't have all my oil change receipts, and I do wind up having
>to buy a new engine, is there some sort of consolation? Will I be able
>to drive the car that much longer? Will the odometer return to 000000?
><g> In other words, is there any kind of silver lining to the black
>cloud of having to replace the engine?
>
>Marc

Well I guess you will have learned your lesson and will change the
oil.

The car should last 300 K more if you learn how to take care of it...


--

Scott in Florida

Scott in Florida wrote:

> Well I guess you will have learned your lesson and will change the
> oil.

I mentioned in my first message that I don't know anything about cars,
which is why I followed all the instructions to the letter, including
oil changes according to the date/mileage on the little sticker they
put at the top of the windshield.

Marc

On 16 Oct 2006 15:50:45 -0700, "Marc Adler" <marc.adler@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I bought a 2000 Sienna three years ago at 20,000 miles. It now has
>50,000 miles, and literally two days before putting the van on a ship
>to move from Hawaii to Texas, it starts spewing white smoke on
>start-up. I searched the internet and found out about the online
>petition to make Toyota recall these vehicles because of sludge
>(gellation?) problems. I don't know anything about cars, and I know
>that a little learning is a dangerous thing, which is why I've always
>followed the instructions to change the oil, etc., to the letter.
>
<snip>

I think this may not be related to maintenance at all.

Some Toyota Sienna's made in 2000 have a manufacturing defect that
causes the engine to do what you are describing. Evidently the problem
occurs without any indication.
A friend with a '02 Sienna XLE had the same problem and Toyota
replaced the engine as it was under 3 yrs/36k miles
Search the web and you should find differing experiences.
IMHO - Toyota screwed up and will try to pass the buck where they
can...

*TBlade wrote:

> IMHO - Toyota screwed up and will try to pass the buck where they
> can...

That is bullshit and you know it. In most cases, Toyota admits their
mistakes and works to fix them. Unless the issue is something that could
compromise the safety of its occupants, it is the big 3 who deny the
existence of problems on their cars. The best current example of this is
the intake manifold gasket problem on many GM V6's.

GM extended the warranty on problem intake manifolds a long time ago.


mike hunt


"High Tech Misfit" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3mv51x0niibh$.dlg@hightech.misfit...
> TBlade wrote:
>
>> IMHO - Toyota screwed up and will try to pass the buck where they
>> can...
>
> That is bullshit and you know it. In most cases, Toyota admits their
> mistakes and works to fix them. Unless the issue is something that could
> compromise the safety of its occupants, it is the big 3 who deny the
> existence of problems on their cars. The best current example of this is
> the intake manifold gasket problem on many GM V6's.