New York taxi boss shops for new cabs

Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end

Ryan Beene
Automotive News
January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET

DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse
of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.

The New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission is shopping for a new
generation of cars to be phased in to its fleet of about 13,000 yellow
cabs. Officials from New York's taxi commission were at the auto show
this week to discuss their Taxi of Tomorrow project with major
automakers.

" We met with all of the major automobile manufacturers," commission
Chairman Matthew Daus told Automotive News. " We're taking this as an
opportunity to ask manufacturers to custom-build the utopian cab for
us."

Daus said such a cab would be reasonably priced, fuel efficient,
accessible for passengers with disabilities and distinctively styled.

To help draft specifications for the cab project, the commission has
contracted with the suburban Detroit operations of the U.K. automotive
engineering and technology firm Ricardo PLC as a consultant.
Specifications will be sent to every major automaker in about a month,
Daus said. He declined to name specific companies.

Taxi program

The Crown Victoria has been the dominant cab in the New York fleet for
years. While about 18 percent of the city-administered fleet is
supplied by other automakers, Ford has a taxi program that alters
Crown Victorias on request.

" The difference between the Ford Crown Victoria and every other
vehicle that's out there is that Ford is the only one that came up
with a taxi package program, a commercial-vehicle initiative where
they actually tailor the vehicle over the years to make it a better
taxi," Daus said. " The other manufacturers have not authorized
specifically a program to use these vehicles as taxis."

In 2001, Ford lengthened Crown Victorias destined to be in the cab
fleet by about 6 inches, upon request by the city of New York, Daus
said.

But rising fuel costs, environmental awareness, recently increased
fuel economy standards for New York cabs and the inevitable demise of
the Crown Victoria are pushing the issue.

" The Crown Victoria is basically coming to an end," Daus said. "
We're looking to make our environment cleaner and be more fuel
efficient and save more money for drivers and the owners, so you could
basically say that the Crown Victoria is going to be phased out."

That could upset a lot of New York cab riders. A survey by CNW
Marketing Research, of Bandon, Ore., found that 95 percent of
respondents preferred the Crown Victoria over other New York cabs,
such as the dozen Toyota Prius sedans the city has in its fleet.

" The Crown Vic has been a spectacular fleet car," CNW analyst Art
Spinella said in a phone interview with Automotive News. " It's
perfect for what it does."

Spinella said Ford would benefit if it continued to dominate the New
York fleet, but that doesn't mean it will happen.

Phone messages to Ford Motor were not returned today." If Ford were to
stay doing nothing but Crown Vics for taxis and upgrading them to some
degree, maybe fitting a more fuel-efficient V-6 instead of a V-8 in it
or hybridizing it, they could probably hold on to 70 to 75 percent of
that market," Spinella said. " But I'm not sure that they want to
spend the money to do it."

Big Apple is biggest

New York is the largest purchaser of cabs, according to the Taxicab,
Limousine &Paratransit Association, of Kensington, Md. Second is
Chicago, where the dominant cab also is the Crown Victoria.
New York has been testing other vehicles as it retires and replaces
cabs every three to five years. The city's fleet includes hybrids,
vans and SUVs from a number of automakers, but Daus said there isn't a
vehicle now on the market that can solve the city's needs.

Hybrids could be a viable fleet solution for New York, Spinella said,
citing two nameplates: the Ford Escape Hybrid. and the Prius.

The Escape Hybrid " may be Ford's ace in the hole," Spinella said,
adding that if Ford could strip it down, the car could be sold at a
cheaper price.

While the Prius gets poor marks for lack of cargo space, Spinella said
building something larger on the Prius frame could make it a viable
cab.

Said Spinella: " It might be in Toyota's best interest to turn the
Prius into a London-taxi-type of vehicle. The Prius is sturdy enough
to be transformed into that type of vehicle."

By taking a chance on a relatively low-volume fleet, the rewards could
be bigger than the initial risk, he said, adding: " If New York does
it, you know Chicago and some other major Eastern cities are going to
do the same thing."

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:10:01 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>
>Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>
>Ryan Beene
>Automotive News
>January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>
>DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse
>of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.<snip>

It's already history. Toyota is swamping NYC's cab industry with the
enormously successful minivan version. Also, police agencies are
abandoning the tired, obsolete Crown Vickie for the Dodge Charger in
droves.

The Crown Vickie has been a fairly obsolete vehicle or years now, and
didn't improve any after its last competition left the marketplace,
the Chrysler M-body in 1989 and the old Chevy Caprice left a few years
later. Small interior space with large exterior bulk is one problem,
horrid fuel economy is another. At last tally I saw, there are fewer
than 100 Crown Vickies on Ford dealers' lots right now nationwide, and
ZERO Marquises.

It's over, and high time it was.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:10:01 -0500, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>
>Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>
>Ryan Beene
>Automotive News
>January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>
>DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse
>of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.

The Crown Vic and it's sister, the Mercury Grand Marquis are the last
examples of the Detroit Iron of old. They are full-size, rear wheel
drive V8's and make great cabs, police cars or fleet vehicles but they
are dated and their production is coming to an end. A suitable
replacement is needed and not just by taxi fleets.

Nobody in his/her right mind would get into a high-speed pursuit with
today's front-wheel drive 4 bangers, their handling is just too
unpredictable. They go from understeer to oversteer with little or no
warning. I don't know what will replace the Crown Vic in taxi fleets
but I can almost guarantee that state police fleets will stay with
some brand/type of rear wheel drive vehicle.

Jack

"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:std9p3p16vangt4g3eq3kl98gohlkei485@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:10:01 -0500, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>>
>>Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>>
>>Ryan Beene
>>Automotive News
>>January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>>
>>DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the
>>workhorse
>>of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.<snip>
>
> It's already history. Toyota is swamping NYC's cab industry with
> the
> enormously successful minivan version. Also, police agencies are
> abandoning the tired, obsolete Crown Vickie for the Dodge Charger in
> droves.

I am not sure what you mean by "swamping." From
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...of-the-future/ :

"Among the 13,000 taxi medallions out there, there are 11,324 Crown
Victoria Sedans, 1,318 Toyta Sienna minivans, 216 Ford Escape
sport-utility vehicles, 61 Toyota Highlander S.U.V.'s, 52 Chevy
Uplander S.U.V.'s, 6 Toyota Prius sedans, 5 Honda Odyssey minivans, 4
Toyota Campry sedans, 2 Dodge Grand Caravan S.U.V.'s"

I am not sure 1,318 Siennas are "swamping" 11,324 Crown Vistorias.

> The Crown Vickie has been a fairly obsolete vehicle or years now,
> and
> didn't improve any after its last competition left the marketplace,
> the Chrysler M-body in 1989 and the old Chevy Caprice left a few
> years
> later. Small interior space with large exterior bulk is one
> problem,

Ford actually builds a long wheel base Crown Victoria for the cab
industry. It has even more rear seat room than the very roomy standard
Crown Victoria.

> horrid fuel economy is another.

Actually Crown Victorias get relativelty good fuel economy, the same
as the V-8 Chargers, and they have much more interior room. A 2008 CV
is EPA rated 15 city, 23 highway, 18 combined. A 2008 Sienna mini-van
is rated 17 city, 23 highway, 19 combined. A V-8 Charger (not the high
performance V-8) is rated 15 city, 23 highway, 18 combined (same as
the CV, despite being smaller and lighter).

> At last tally I saw, there are fewer
> than 100 Crown Vickies on Ford dealers' lots right now nationwide,
> and
> ZERO Marquises.

Ford has decided to concentrate on fleet sales for the Crown Victoria,
but the Grand Marquis is still being marketed to the general public -
I just saw an ad for them last Friday. The Mercury dealer closest to
my house (Capital Lincoln-Mercury, Cary, NC) had over twenty 2008
Grand Marquis in stock. The local Ford dealer has a few 2007 Crown
Victorias in stock, but no 2008s and Ford doesn't even list the CV on
the Ford website (the Grand Marquis is prominently listed on the
Mercury web site).

Ed

The name excape me at the monment but Ford has a new box crossover like
car/SUV, built on an AWD chassis, that will come to market later this year,
that will fill the bill as a CV replacement. There is no question that the
CV is the prefered NEW cab in major US cities. What most poeple do not know
however is the fast majority of CV cabs in NYC were purchased USED not new.
NYC cabs, in general for the most part, are puchased used. Nearly half of
the CV cabs in NYC are rebuilt former police cars, many with well over 500K
on the clock.


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4794a819$1@kcnews01...
> New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>
> Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>
> Ryan Beene
> Automotive News
> January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>
> DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse of
> New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.
>
> The New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission is shopping for a new
> generation of cars to be phased in to its fleet of about 13,000 yellow
> cabs. Officials from New York's taxi commission were at the auto show this
> week to discuss their Taxi of Tomorrow project with major automakers.
>
> " We met with all of the major automobile manufacturers," commission
> Chairman Matthew Daus told Automotive News. " We're taking this as an
> opportunity to ask manufacturers to custom-build the utopian cab for us."
>
> Daus said such a cab would be reasonably priced, fuel efficient,
> accessible for passengers with disabilities and distinctively styled.
>
> To help draft specifications for the cab project, the commission has
> contracted with the suburban Detroit operations of the U.K. automotive
> engineering and technology firm Ricardo PLC as a consultant.
> Specifications will be sent to every major automaker in about a month,
> Daus said. He declined to name specific companies.
>
> Taxi program
>
> The Crown Victoria has been the dominant cab in the New York fleet for
> years. While about 18 percent of the city-administered fleet is supplied
> by other automakers, Ford has a taxi program that alters Crown Victorias
> on request.
>
> " The difference between the Ford Crown Victoria and every other vehicle
> that's out there is that Ford is the only one that came up with a taxi
> package program, a commercial-vehicle initiative where they actually
> tailor the vehicle over the years to make it a better taxi," Daus said. "
> The other manufacturers have not authorized specifically a program to use
> these vehicles as taxis."
>
> In 2001, Ford lengthened Crown Victorias destined to be in the cab fleet
> by about 6 inches, upon request by the city of New York, Daus said.
>
> But rising fuel costs, environmental awareness, recently increased fuel
> economy standards for New York cabs and the inevitable demise of the Crown
> Victoria are pushing the issue.
>
> " The Crown Victoria is basically coming to an end," Daus said. " We're
> looking to make our environment cleaner and be more fuel efficient and
> save more money for drivers and the owners, so you could basically say
> that the Crown Victoria is going to be phased out."
>
> That could upset a lot of New York cab riders. A survey by CNW Marketing
> Research, of Bandon, Ore., found that 95 percent of respondents preferred
> the Crown Victoria over other New York cabs, such as the dozen Toyota
> Prius sedans the city has in its fleet.
>
> " The Crown Vic has been a spectacular fleet car," CNW analyst Art
> Spinella said in a phone interview with Automotive News. " It's perfect
> for what it does."
>
> Spinella said Ford would benefit if it continued to dominate the New York
> fleet, but that doesn't mean it will happen.
>
> Phone messages to Ford Motor were not returned today." If Ford were to
> stay doing nothing but Crown Vics for taxis and upgrading them to some
> degree, maybe fitting a more fuel-efficient V-6 instead of a V-8 in it or
> hybridizing it, they could probably hold on to 70 to 75 percent of that
> market," Spinella said. " But I'm not sure that they want to spend the
> money to do it."
>
> Big Apple is biggest
>
> New York is the largest purchaser of cabs, according to the Taxicab,
> Limousine &Paratransit Association, of Kensington, Md. Second is Chicago,
> where the dominant cab also is the Crown Victoria.
> New York has been testing other vehicles as it retires and replaces cabs
> every three to five years. The city's fleet includes hybrids, vans and
> SUVs from a number of automakers, but Daus said there isn't a vehicle now
> on the market that can solve the city's needs.
>
> Hybrids could be a viable fleet solution for New York, Spinella said,
> citing two nameplates: the Ford Escape Hybrid. and the Prius.
>
> The Escape Hybrid " may be Ford's ace in the hole," Spinella said, adding
> that if Ford could strip it down, the car could be sold at a cheaper
> price.
>
> While the Prius gets poor marks for lack of cargo space, Spinella said
> building something larger on the Prius frame could make it a viable cab.
>
> Said Spinella: " It might be in Toyota's best interest to turn the Prius
> into a London-taxi-type of vehicle. The Prius is sturdy enough to be
> transformed into that type of vehicle."
>
> By taking a chance on a relatively low-volume fleet, the rewards could be
> bigger than the initial risk, he said, adding: " If New York does it, you
> know Chicago and some other major Eastern cities are going to do the same
> thing."
>

You don't know what you are talking about. The CV/Interceptor of today is a
totaly differant car from 1999. New body, new chassis, new engine, new
tranny, new electronics, get real

..


"DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:std9p3p16vangt4g3eq3kl98gohlkei485@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:10:01 -0500, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>>
>>Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>>
>>Ryan Beene
>>Automotive News
>>January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>>
>>DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse
>>of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.<snip>
>
> It's already history. Toyota is swamping NYC's cab industry with the
> enormously successful minivan version. Also, police agencies are
> abandoning the tired, obsolete Crown Vickie for the Dodge Charger in
> droves.
>
> The Crown Vickie has been a fairly obsolete vehicle or years now, and
> didn't improve any after its last competition left the marketplace,
> the Chrysler M-body in 1989 and the old Chevy Caprice left a few years
> later. Small interior space with large exterior bulk is one problem,
> horrid fuel economy is another. At last tally I saw, there are fewer
> than 100 Crown Vickies on Ford dealers' lots right now nationwide, and
> ZERO Marquises.
>
> It's over, and high time it was.

In article <CqGdnSSyNJD0QAnanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
"Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com> wrote:

> The name excape me at the monment but Ford has a new box crossover like
> car/SUV, built on an AWD chassis, that will come to market later this year,
> that will fill the bill as a CV replacement. There is no question that the
> CV is the prefered NEW cab in major US cities. What most poeple do not know
> however is the fast majority of CV cabs in NYC were purchased USED not new.
> NYC cabs, in general for the most part, are puchased used. Nearly half of
> the CV cabs in NYC are rebuilt former police cars, many with well over 500K
> on the clock.

What ever happened to the Checkers?
--


"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

Hillary Clinton

The operative word is "Medallion" cabs. As any Newyorker knows the streets
are filled with Gipsy and Livery cabs, not medallion cabs





"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4794c078$1@kcnews01...
>
> "DeserTBoB" <desertb@rglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:std9p3p16vangt4g3eq3kl98gohlkei485@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:10:01 -0500, "C. E. White"
>> <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
>>>
>>>Crown Vic's dominance in Big Apple may end
>>>
>>>Ryan Beene
>>>Automotive News
>>>January 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm ET
>>>
>>>DETROIT -- The Ford Crown Victoria sedan, which has been the workhorse
>>>of New York's taxicab fleet, could be history.<snip>
>>
>> It's already history. Toyota is swamping NYC's cab industry with the
>> enormously successful minivan version. Also, police agencies are
>> abandoning the tired, obsolete Crown Vickie for the Dodge Charger in
>> droves.
>
> I am not sure what you mean by "swamping." From
> http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...of-the-future/ :
>
> "Among the 13,000 taxi medallions out there, there are 11,324 Crown
> Victoria Sedans, 1,318 Toyta Sienna minivans, 216 Ford Escape
> sport-utility vehicles, 61 Toyota Highlander S.U.V.'s, 52 Chevy Uplander
> S.U.V.'s, 6 Toyota Prius sedans, 5 Honda Odyssey minivans, 4 Toyota Campry
> sedans, 2 Dodge Grand Caravan S.U.V.'s"
>
> I am not sure 1,318 Siennas are "swamping" 11,324 Crown Vistorias.
>
>> The Crown Vickie has been a fairly obsolete vehicle or years now, and
>> didn't improve any after its last competition left the marketplace,
>> the Chrysler M-body in 1989 and the old Chevy Caprice left a few years
>> later. Small interior space with large exterior bulk is one problem,
>
> Ford actually builds a long wheel base Crown Victoria for the cab
> industry. It has even more rear seat room than the very roomy standard
> Crown Victoria.
>
>> horrid fuel economy is another.
>
> Actually Crown Victorias get relativelty good fuel economy, the same as
> the V-8 Chargers, and they have much more interior room. A 2008 CV is EPA
> rated 15 city, 23 highway, 18 combined. A 2008 Sienna mini-van is rated 17
> city, 23 highway, 19 combined. A V-8 Charger (not the high performance
> V-8) is rated 15 city, 23 highway, 18 combined (same as the CV, despite
> being smaller and lighter).
>
>> At last tally I saw, there are fewer
>> than 100 Crown Vickies on Ford dealers' lots right now nationwide, and
>> ZERO Marquises.
>
> Ford has decided to concentrate on fleet sales for the Crown Victoria, but
> the Grand Marquis is still being marketed to the general public - I just
> saw an ad for them last Friday. The Mercury dealer closest to my house
> (Capital Lincoln-Mercury, Cary, NC) had over twenty 2008 Grand Marquis in
> stock. The local Ford dealer has a few 2007 Crown Victorias in stock, but
> no 2008s and Ford doesn't even list the CV on the Ford website (the Grand
> Marquis is prominently listed on the Mercury web site).
>
> Ed
>

Price! Checkers were "assembled" cars, they only made bodies and puchased
drivetrain parts etc.from others


"dbu" <nospam@nospam.moc> wrote in message
news:nospam-EDC53C.12090421012008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <CqGdnSSyNJD0QAnanZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@ptd.net>,
> "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> The name excape me at the monment but Ford has a new box crossover like
>> car/SUV, built on an AWD chassis, that will come to market later this
>> year,
>> that will fill the bill as a CV replacement. There is no question that
>> the
>> CV is the prefered NEW cab in major US cities. What most poeple do not
>> know
>> however is the fast majority of CV cabs in NYC were purchased USED not
>> new.
>> NYC cabs, in general for the most part, are puchased used. Nearly half
>> of
>> the CV cabs in NYC are rebuilt former police cars, many with well over
>> 500K
>> on the clock.
>
> What ever happened to the Checkers?
> --
>
>
> "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
>
> Hillary Clinton

In alt.autos.ford C. E. White <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote:
> New York taxi boss shops for new cabs
....
> Hybrids could be a viable fleet solution for New York, Spinella said,
> citing two nameplates: the Ford Escape Hybrid. and the Prius.

I thought it was a done deal, mostly Escapes and Highlanders, with some
Prius.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/home/home.shtml
"MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES TAXI FLEET TO BE FULLY HYBRID BY 2012"

"Currently there are only 375 hybrid vehicles in the City's taxi fleet. By
October 2008, the number of hybrids in the fleet will triple. The phase-in
for the City fleet to become completely hybrid is as follows:

October 2008 - 1000 yellow hybrid taxicabs;
October 2009 - 4000 yellow hybrid taxicabs (30% of the fleet)
October 2010 - 7000 yellow hybrid taxicabs (53% of the fleet)
October 2011 - 10000 yellow hybrid taxicabs (76% of the fleet)
October 2012 - all yellow taxicabs will be hybrid (100% of the fleet)
"

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5