93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.

I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil change for
me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it could
cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?

Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?

That would be more than the car is worth.

Sarah Houston wrote:
> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>
> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil change for
> me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it could
> cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>
> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>
> That would be more than the car is worth.

Did the mechanic say why he thought there was a leak?

Has the car had overheated, had lots of white exhaust or steam coming
out of the tail pipe or a sweet smell coming out of the tail pipe?

Are there any symptoms or problems with the car?

Jeff

"Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A2DA4B613F41SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>
> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil change for
> me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it could
> cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>
> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>
> That would be more than the car is worth.
>

As Jeff mentioned, when coolant leaks due to a bad head gasket usually gives
symptoms. Another is that the engine oil will look like a coffee milkshake.

Head gasket leaks on your vintage Corolla are not that common, unless the
engine has been overheated. If the engine has never been overheated, get a
second opinion.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

$2100 sounds way too steep for a head gasket. Should be in the
$700-800 range assuming no other damage to the engine.

There are three common failure modes for the coolant path at the head
gasket.

1. coolant can leak from the coolant passages directly to the outside
(this is what your mechanic is suggesting)
2. to oil passages - this results in milky oil when you check the oil
dipstick
3. or to a cylinder - then you have white smoke coming out of the
exhaust.

(of course, bad things go both ways, so oil and gas can get into the
radiator, etc)

#1, in minor cases also called seepage, is common even on later Toyota
V6 engines. Some defective V6 head gaskets during those years have
been recalled. But I don't think that's the case with the 1.8L.

See head gasket, Fig 19, on Autozone's online repair guide:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm





On Jan 22, 3:11 pm, Sarah Houston <SHo...@pndfnospam.com> wrote:
> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>
> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil change for
> me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it could
> cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>
> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>
> That would be more than the car is worth.

Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote :

> Sarah Houston wrote:
>> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>>
>> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil
>> change for me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head
>> gasket and it could cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>>
>> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>>
>> That would be more than the car is worth.
>
> Did the mechanic say why he thought there was a leak?

He claims they saw it around the back of the engine and "it's leaking
pretty good".

Only we see nothing in the driveway or anywhere else we park.

And I noticed that while one place was too booked up to do my oil &
tranny oil change yesterday, this place was not busy, they got me right
in and did it right away. Lookin' for expensive work?

>
> Has the car had overheated, had lots of white exhaust or steam coming
> out of the tail pipe or a sweet smell coming out of the tail pipe?

No. The coolant has looked low though.

> Are there any symptoms or problems with the car?

Slightly longer time before the heat starts coming up in this cold
weather. But the coolant being low can do that.

It may be a very slow pinhole leak, maybe a drop a day?

The bottom line is, we can't afford $2200 to fix it, the car is simply
not worth that much anymore, and we could buy a lot of coolant for that
money anyway. If it gets much worse, we may just have to get another
car.

But I asked him why the head gasket would suddenly start leaking and he
said maybe they dry out over the years.

But did they still use cork gaskets in the 93 models? I though
everything was going to synthetic rubber by then.

This has been the most reliable car we've ever owned, I just hope that
something as silly as a $30 gasket doesn't kill it for us.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote :

>
> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A2DA4B613F41SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
>> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>>
>> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil
>> change for me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head
>> gasket and it could cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>>
>> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>>
>> That would be more than the car is worth.
>>
>
> As Jeff mentioned, when coolant leaks due to a bad head gasket
> usually gives symptoms. Another is that the engine oil will look
> like a coffee milkshake.
>
> Head gasket leaks on your vintage Corolla are not that common, unless
> the engine has been overheated. If the engine has never been
> overheated, get a second opinion.

Ok, thanks.

No it hasn't been overheated, it's been fine.

johngdole@hotmail.com wrote :

> $2100 sounds way too steep for a head gasket. Should be in the
> $700-800 range assuming no other damage to the engine.
>
> There are three common failure modes for the coolant path at the head
> gasket.
>
> 1. coolant can leak from the coolant passages directly to the outside
> (this is what your mechanic is suggesting)
> 2. to oil passages - this results in milky oil when you check the oil
> dipstick
> 3. or to a cylinder - then you have white smoke coming out of the
> exhaust.
>
> (of course, bad things go both ways, so oil and gas can get into the
> radiator, etc)
>
> #1, in minor cases also called seepage, is common even on later
> Toyota V6 engines. Some defective V6 head gaskets during those years
> have been recalled. But I don't think that's the case with the 1.8L.
>
> See head gasket, Fig 19, on Autozone's online repair guide:
> http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...9/0900823d8016
> 9d49/repairInfoPages.htm
>
>

Thanks. I may just have to keep an eye on it from now on, get a second
opinion and maybe try to find someone who can fix it for a lot less
money?

"Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A2E8615C9570SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote :
>
>> Sarah Houston wrote:
>>> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>>>
>>> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil
>>> change for me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head
>>> gasket and it could cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>>>
>>> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>>>
>>> That would be more than the car is worth.
>>
>> Did the mechanic say why he thought there was a leak?
>
> He claims they saw it around the back of the engine and "it's leaking
> pretty good".
>
> Only we see nothing in the driveway or anywhere else we park.
>
> And I noticed that while one place was too booked up to do my oil &
> tranny oil change yesterday, this place was not busy, they got me right
> in and did it right away. Lookin' for expensive work?

I don't know. Usually, when a head gasket goes, the water leakes either into
the oil or into the cylinders.

I think I would start by taking it to a different mechanic and get a second
opinion. And fill the coolant resevoir, too, and make sure it doesn't go
down too low.

>>
>> Has the car had overheated, had lots of white exhaust or steam coming
>> out of the tail pipe or a sweet smell coming out of the tail pipe?
>
> No. The coolant has looked low though.
>
>> Are there any symptoms or problems with the car?
>
> Slightly longer time before the heat starts coming up in this cold
> weather. But the coolant being low can do that.
>
> It may be a very slow pinhole leak, maybe a drop a day?
>
> The bottom line is, we can't afford $2200 to fix it, the car is simply
> not worth that much anymore, and we could buy a lot of coolant for that
> money anyway. If it gets much worse, we may just have to get another
> car.
>
> But I asked him why the head gasket would suddenly start leaking and he
> said maybe they dry out over the years.
>
> But did they still use cork gaskets in the 93 models? I though
> everything was going to synthetic rubber by then.
>
> This has been the most reliable car we've ever owned, I just hope that
> something as silly as a $30 gasket doesn't kill it for us.
>

"Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A2DA4B613F41SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>
> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil change for
> me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it could
> cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>
> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>
> That would be more than the car is worth.
>

A blown head gasket would manifest itself in any combination of the
following, oil or air in the coolant, coolant in the oil, over heating, and
occasionally leaking to the outside.

If there was oil or air in the coolant, you would see bubbles flow past the
fill-hole when the tstat opened. With the engine cool, open the radiator and
start the motor. Leave the car running for 10-ish minutes until it reaches
normal operating temp. By this time, the thermostat (tstat) should be
cycling open and closed -- when open, the coolant will visibly flow past the
filler neck, when closed the coolant will not be moving. While the coolant
is flowing, look to see if there are air bubbles floating by. An occasional
bubble -- one or two every few seconds -- is okay. If there is a constant
flow of bubbles, then you have troubles that you should look into.

If there is coolant in the oil, pull the dipstick out -- after doing the
above warm-up -- while the engine is running. Do not be concerned with the
level of the oil on the stick, but look for water bubbles mixed into the
oil, or for foam on the dip stick. Foam indicates the presence of water that
is being churned under by the action of the crankshaft. You can do the same
test on a cold engine -- simply pull the dipstick -- but the problem with
this method is that the water sinks below the oil, and can rest below the
bottom of the dipstick. I prefer to pull the dipstick on a running motor and
check for foam or water dropplets. The presence of foam or water (coolant)
indicates trouble that needs further investigation.

As a general rule, a blown head gasket will show itself through temp control
problems. The engine will run hotter than you are used to, accompanied by
the smell of coolant. This is not a very reliable test though, because a
head gasket can fail in such a manner that temp problems do not come on
until the gasket has been failed for quite some time.

You stated that the mechanic said there was oil leaking to the rear of the
motor. Most head gaskets that I've seen failed along the sides, not at one
end or the other. I suppose there is no reason a gasket can't fail at the
front or back of the motor, but all of the failed gaskets I've seen failed
differently than that. I would suggest your real problem is a failed valve
cover gasket, which is far more common than a failed head gasket, and
cheaper to fix. Another thing about "failed" valve cover gaskets is that the
valve cover screws come loose, allowing oil to leak. Having said that, I had
a failed valve cover gasket that was mis-diagnosed, and I only spoted the
real problem because while I was out on a test drive after fixing the wrong
thing, I had my vehicle parked on an incline and actually could see oil
flowing out from the valve cover. Upon repair of the valve cover gasket, I
discovered a huge (by gasket standards) hole in the gasket material.

You said there was no oil on the driveway, and failed to mention any of the
other common symptoms. I'd suggest you make the checks suggested to be sure,
but my instinct is that your head gasket is okay. You found a mechanic that
is selling stuff you do not need.

If you DO need a head gasket, it seems to me that $1200 is expensive. It is
a difficult job that takes quite a bit of time, but assuming a $75 per hour
labor rate, this is a 16 hour job. I'm not in this line of work, but it
seems to me that it ought to be about 8 hours, plus $150-ish for parts.

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:cORlj.32$d9.12@trnddc08...
>>
>> "Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A2DA4B613F41SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
>>> 93 Corolla DX wagon 1.8 L.
>>>
>>> I just had a mechanic who was doing an oil change and trans oil
>>> change for
>>> me, tell me that we have a coolant leak from the head gasket and it
>>> could
>>> cost $2100 to fix it. Huh?
>>>
>>> Is this for real or should I get a second opinion?
>>>
>>> That would be more than the car is worth.
>>>
>>
>> A blown head gasket would manifest itself in any combination of the
>> following, oil or air in the coolant, coolant in the oil, over
>> heating, and occasionally leaking to the outside.
>>
>> If there was oil or air in the coolant, you would see bubbles flow
>> past the fill-hole when the tstat opened. With the engine cool, open
>> the radiator and start the motor. Leave the car running for 10-ish
>> minutes until it reaches normal operating temp. By this time, the
>> thermostat (tstat) should be cycling open and closed -- when open, the
>> coolant will visibly flow past the filler neck, when closed the
>> coolant will not be moving. While the coolant is flowing, look to see
>> if there are air bubbles floating by. An occasional bubble -- one or
>> two every few seconds -- is okay. If there is a constant flow of
>> bubbles, then you have troubles that you should look into.
>>
>> If there is coolant in the oil, pull the dipstick out -- after doing
>> the above warm-up -- while the engine is running. Do not be concerned
>> with the level of the oil on the stick, but look for water bubbles
>> mixed into the oil, or for foam on the dip stick. Foam indicates the
>> presence of water that is being churned under by the action of the
>> crankshaft. You can do the same test on a cold engine -- simply pull
>> the dipstick -- but the problem with this method is that the water
>> sinks below the oil, and can rest below the bottom of the dipstick. I
>> prefer to pull the dipstick on a running motor and check for foam or
>> water dropplets. The presence of foam or water (coolant) indicates
>> trouble that needs further investigation.
>>
>> As a general rule, a blown head gasket will show itself through temp
>> control problems. The engine will run hotter than you are used to,
>> accompanied by the smell of coolant. This is not a very reliable test
>> though, because a head gasket can fail in such a manner that temp
>> problems do not come on until the gasket has been failed for quite
>> some time.
>>
>> You stated that the mechanic said there was oil leaking to the rear of
>> the motor. Most head gaskets that I've seen failed along the sides,
>> not at one end or the other. I suppose there is no reason a gasket
>> can't fail at the front or back of the motor, but all of the failed
>> gaskets I've seen failed differently than that. I would suggest your
>> real problem is a failed valve cover gasket, which is far more common
>> than a failed head gasket, and cheaper to fix. Another thing about
>> "failed" valve cover gaskets is that the valve cover screws come
>> loose, allowing oil to leak. Having said that, I had a failed valve
>> cover gasket that was mis-diagnosed, and I only spoted the real
>> problem because while I was out on a test drive after fixing the wrong
>> thing, I had my vehicle parked on an incline and actually could see
>> oil flowing out from the valve cover. Upon repair of the valve cover
>> gasket, I discovered a huge (by gasket standards) hole in the gasket
>> material.
>>
>> You said there was no oil on the driveway, and failed to mention any
>> of the other common symptoms. I'd suggest you make the checks
>> suggested to be sure, but my instinct is that your head gasket is
>> okay. You found a mechanic that is selling stuff you do not need.
>>
>> If you DO need a head gasket, it seems to me that $1200 is expensive.
>> It is a difficult job that takes quite a bit of time, but assuming a
>> $75 per hour labor rate, this is a 16 hour job. I'm not in this line
>> of work, but it seems to me that it ought to be about 8 hours, plus
>> $150-ish for parts.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> My bad, you said repairs are going to run to $1200, not $1600. That's
> rape in some states.

Actually, she said $2100.

She said the leak was a coolant leak (not oil). And the mechanic said
back of the engine, which could mean the side next to the firewall
(which you and I think of side of the engine).

There's water channels through the engine. If the gasket is leaking, it
could come out the back (whether the back is what you think of as the
side or the rear). If the leak is the rear, the coolant might hit the
exhaust manifold and evaporate (which would explain why no one sees it).

You should be able to buy a rebuilt engine for less than that.

Jeff