Hi folks,
This is a question about my Jeep, but I have built a trust with folks here
and I wish to ask the generic opinion here please. It is at least about
vehicles <g>.

I have now got around to pulling off my rear drum to have a lookey at the
rear brakes. The situation was that I failed for braking differential
between the front and the rear brakes in the state inspection. The
assumption was that the rear brakes were worn out at 90K miles. I had done
the fronts some time ago. I was expecting to have to bring the drums down
to the shop to have them cut while I swap out the shoe parts. To my
surprise, it all actually looks to me to still be OK, with a lot of pad
left.

I posted a few pictures (the first time I have done that - yep I am so
proud...my daughter helped me there - links below) that I would like you to
please look at and either confirm that I do not need new brakes or set me
straight in whatever way I need it.

When I took off the drum, before I messed with the star adjuster, it seemed
kind of loose to my uncalibrated feel. The drum was loose enough to rattle
in my hand on the studs, it just would not come of due to the ridges in the
drum. When I was adjusting the shoes to be able to get the drum off, I
first moved it a bit in the wrong direction and it tightened up so the drum
did not move. It seemed like there was a bit of adjusting done to get that
far. It is all dry in there - no leaks.

So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back together
and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it moves with just a
little resistance. Then try running it through inspection (which is free)
again. Cool?

I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do they
not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this something
I need to do periodically? What is up with this?

Thanks folks for your insight.
Tomes
(also posted to other NGs)

The picture links:
Entire assembly.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
Top of rear shoe
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
Top of front shoe
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg

"Tomes" <ask.me@here.net> wrote in
news:fp78an$eua$1@registered.motzarella.org:


>
> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it
> moves with just a little resistance. Then try running it through
> inspection (which is free) again. Cool?


Yup.


>
> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
> they not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
> something I need to do periodically? What is up with this?



They should eventually adjust on their own, but it might take a while if
you've really backed them off. If you want to drive slowly backwards,
braking every few seconds for a few minutes, they will adjust more
quickly.

That rust ridge is a real problem. Every time I remove drums I grind off
that ridge, undercutting slightly in the process.


>
> Thanks folks for your insight.
> Tomes
> (also posted to other NGs)



Be nice if you crossposted correctly. Since I have no idea which other
groups you posted to, I remain unenlightened by any good advice you may
receive in those other groups.


>
> The picture links:
> Entire assembly.
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
> Top of rear shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
> Top of front shoe
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>
>
>
>
>


This is the right rear, isn't it?

Your setup looks like the kind that adjusts when you drive the vehicle
in reverse.

You don't appear to need new shoes at this point. Are you at 1/8" or
more thickness at any given point on each shoe? If so, they can be left
a while longer.

It is critical that your rear brakes function correctly. Your front
brakes were designed to act in concert with the rears, not by
themselves. Plus the rear brakes help stabilize the rear of the car
under hard braking.

--
Tegger

"Tegger"...
> "Tomes" :
>> So here is what I am thinking now. All I need to do is put it back
>> together and adjust to wheel stoppage and then back off a bit so it
>> moves with just a little resistance. Then try running it through
>> inspection (which is free) again. Cool?
>
> Yup.
>
>> I am wondering at this point why they would need to be adjusted. Do
>> they not self adjust when I back out of the garage every day? Is this
>> something I need to do periodically? What is up with this?
>
> They should eventually adjust on their own, but it might take a while if
> you've really backed them off. If you want to drive slowly backwards,
> braking every few seconds for a few minutes, they will adjust more
> quickly.
>
> That rust ridge is a real problem. Every time I remove drums I grind off
> that ridge, undercutting slightly in the process.

So you recommend that I go get these cut since I have then off.

>
>> Thanks folks for your insight.
>> Tomes
>> (also posted to other NGs)
>
> Be nice if you crossposted correctly. Since I have no idea which other
> groups you posted to, I remain unenlightened by any good advice you may
> receive in those other groups.

Yeah that is something I have forever been uncertain on. One gets villified
if one crossposts to many groups but if one does not then folks do not see
what is said to the thread in other groups. I posted this to alt.jeep-l and
rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys as well as here.

>
>> The picture links:
>> Entire assembly.
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1001.jpg
>> Top of rear shoe
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1002.jpg
>> Top of front shoe
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG0999.jpg
>> Drum - no gouges at all on surface that is meeting up with the pads
>> http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/CIMG1000.jpg
>>
> This is the right rear, isn't it?
>

yep

> Your setup looks like the kind that adjusts when you drive the vehicle
> in reverse.
>
> You don't appear to need new shoes at this point. Are you at 1/8" or
> more thickness at any given point on each shoe? If so, they can be left
> a while longer.

about 1/8" is what it it now.

>
> It is critical that your rear brakes function correctly. Your front
> brakes were designed to act in concert with the rears, not by
> themselves. Plus the rear brakes help stabilize the rear of the car
> under hard braking.

agreed, and thanks Tegger.

>
> --
> Tegger
>

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:59:52 -0500, Tomes wrote:

> Hi folks,
> This is a question about my Jeep, but I have built a trust with folks here
> and I wish to ask the generic opinion here please.

Take it to the Jeep newsgroup!!!




(Usual answer I get when asking a generic question, but that's usually
from someone who needs to find out what a car is...

I would check the thickness on the drum and see if it's in spec at the
lowest point, then take it to a brake shop to have it machined to get rid
of those ridges.

However, being thrifty (read: Cheapskate) your idea of putting it back
together and adjusting it should work. I have never heard of this test
before, and I though Mass had an anal inspection!

I didn't have this type of brake on my Grand Voyager (single shoe) and I
can't remember how I reset the adjuster... but, it wasn't adjusting
properly until I put it back together. it looked fine when I took the drum
off, but the adjuster wasn't working until I messed with it. I took the
assy apart and then reinstalled it, and it worked just fine...


Good Luck!

"Tomes" <ask.me@here.net> wrote in message
news:fp7ba4$ter$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> You don't appear to need new shoes at this point. Are you at 1/8" or
>> more thickness at any given point on each shoe? If so, they can be left
>> a while longer.
>
> about 1/8" is what it it now.
>

Tomes,
I would suggest that if you are down to 1/8" and know it, you may as well
jump in The Wife's car and head down to the store for a new set of brake
pads. I see no point in putting your Jeep back together with the pads worn
that low. If you _had_ to put it back together, then adjust them as needed
and be happy. But if you have time today, you may as well get it done
because you will be taking the whole mess apart in a couple of weeks anyway,
especially since you are going to adjust them so that they actually do
something -- and hence, finish wearing out sooner.

Otherwise, I agree with Tegger.

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote in
news:_rItj.240$JF.124@trnddc01:

>
> "Tomes" <ask.me@here.net> wrote in message
> news:fp7ba4$ter$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> You don't appear to need new shoes at this point. Are you at 1/8" or
>>> more thickness at any given point on each shoe? If so, they can be
>>> left a while longer.
>>
>> about 1/8" is what it it now.
>>
>
> Tomes,
> I would suggest that if you are down to 1/8" and know it, you may as
> well jump in The Wife's car and head down to the store for a new set
> of brake pads. I see no point in putting your Jeep back together with
> the pads worn that low. If you _had_ to put it back together, then
> adjust them as needed and be happy. But if you have time today, you
> may as well get it done because you will be taking the whole mess
> apart in a couple of weeks anyway, especially since you are going to
> adjust them so that they actually do something -- and hence, finish
> wearing out sooner.
>
> Otherwise, I agree with Tegger.
>
>
>
>
>



At 1/8" minimum, he's OK until at least late summer, unless he does a lot
of driving. Personally, I wouldn't panic unless I found the shoes at 1/16"
at the thinnest point (usually the bottom of the front shoe).

Of course replacement is definitely the best choice at this point, but if
the OP had need to stretch things for whatever reason, he's not going to
suffer damaged drums for quite a while yet.

--
Tegger

=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno@AE86.gts>
wrote in news:dmItj.234$wG2.227@trndny09:


>
> I didn't have this type of brake on my Grand Voyager (single shoe)



You must mean "single LEADING shoe", no?



--
Tegger

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier...

You're eventually going to need shoes anyway, so just go and buy them. They
won't go stale on you.

Measure the thickness of those new shoes. Now pull both your drums off and
measure the thickness of the THINNEST part on ALL of the installed four
shoes. This is usually the bottom of the front (short) shoe.

* Assume the new shoes are 3/16" thick. That's 0% worn.
* Assume 1/16" at the thinnest point of any installed shoe to be 100% worn.
* Assume your current shoes at their thinnest point are 1/8". That's 50%
worn.

If it took you 30,000 miles to get to 50% worn, it will take approximately
30K more to get to 100% worn. Around 20-25K is when you inspect them. For
most people, this would be between one and two years.

Rear drums, thankfully, are quite reliable, unlike rear disc brakes, and
seizure due to corrosion is rare.



--
Tegger

"Hachiroku ...
> Tomes:
>
>> Hi folks,
>> This is a question about my Jeep, but I have built a trust with folks
>> here
>> and I wish to ask the generic opinion here please.
>
> Take it to the Jeep newsgroup!!!
>
LOL I figured I would get that from someone <g>
>
> (Usual answer I get when asking a generic question, but that's usually
> from someone who needs to find out what a car is...
>
> I would check the thickness on the drum and see if it's in spec at the
> lowest point, then take it to a brake shop to have it machined to get rid
> of those ridges.
>
> However, being thrifty (read: Cheapskate) your idea of putting it back
> together and adjusting it should work. I have never heard of this test
> before, and I though Mass had an anal inspection!
>
> I didn't have this type of brake on my Grand Voyager (single shoe) and I
> can't remember how I reset the adjuster... but, it wasn't adjusting
> properly until I put it back together. it looked fine when I took the drum
> off, but the adjuster wasn't working until I messed with it. I took the
> assy apart and then reinstalled it, and it worked just fine...
>
> Good Luck!
>
>
Yeah here in NJ we have these inspection stations that run the vehicle
through a series of standard tests, like plugging in the OBD to look for
codes, checking headlight aim, running the vehicle over a grid that tests
for differing stresses when braking, shaking each wheel on a shaking pad,
even testing the gas cap for pressure capacity. Other stuff too. The tests
have evolved over the years (they don't stick the wand up the exhaust
anymore unless it is a really old car), but it still is pretty rigorous.

I put it back together today and tightened it up moreso. Then did a lot of
backing up and braking with both the foot and hand brakes to set it in real
well. If it fails again I will just replace the stuff, no problem.
Tomes

"Tegger" ...
> "Jeff Strickland" :
>> "Tomes" ...
>>>>
>>>> You don't appear to need new shoes at this point. Are you at 1/8" or
>>>> more thickness at any given point on each shoe? If so, they can be
>>>> left a while longer.
>>>
>>> about 1/8" is what it it now.
>>>
>> Tomes,
>> I would suggest that if you are down to 1/8" and know it, you may as
>> well jump in The Wife's car and head down to the store for a new set
>> of brake pads. I see no point in putting your Jeep back together with
>> the pads worn that low. If you _had_ to put it back together, then
>> adjust them as needed and be happy. But if you have time today, you
>> may as well get it done because you will be taking the whole mess
>> apart in a couple of weeks anyway, especially since you are going to
>> adjust them so that they actually do something -- and hence, finish
>> wearing out sooner.
>>
>> Otherwise, I agree with Tegger.
>>
> At 1/8" minimum, he's OK until at least late summer, unless he does a lot
> of driving. Personally, I wouldn't panic unless I found the shoes at 1/16"
> at the thinnest point (usually the bottom of the front shoe).
>
> Of course replacement is definitely the best choice at this point, but if
> the OP had need to stretch things for whatever reason, he's not going to
> suffer damaged drums for quite a while yet.
>
Thanks Jeff and Tegger. I put it back together and will see how that tests
out.