Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
about 60% of those being freeway miles.

How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
that should best be replaced by the dealer?

I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
replace them for about $130. The serpentine belt is original--it's
never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
that it's something that needs to be switched soon.

Thanks.

Alex

"nightrider.36" <alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:526c8379-be6c-4206-86f8-2c8823d893a2@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
> about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>
> How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
> driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
> that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>
> I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
> technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
> replace them for about $130. The serpentine belt is original--it's
> never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
> filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
> looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
> going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
> that it's something that needs to be switched soon.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alex

You can go to www.toyota.com, and under the "Owners" link, you can look up
scheduled maintenance for your car. The factory recommendation for the
drive belt (serpentine belt) is an inspection at 60,000 miles and every
15,000 miles after that. If the belt has small cracks on the inside, then
it should be replaced. The life of the drive belt depends more on engine
operating time and operating conditions than driving habits. Replacing the
accessory drive belt is not that difficult and could be replaced by any
competent technician.

The engine air filter should also be replaced at 60,000 miles. Replacing
the engine air filter is a very easy task. Unclip the latches on the air
filter housing, lift up the housing, and swap the air filter.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Serpentine belts are affected more by engine heat, so drive and stop
will hurt them more. If your highway miles are in relatively cooler
temps then the belts are probably el cheapo. I'd beware what fast lube
places put in. I'd insist only on Gates products (I order and replace
my own BTW) and properly tensioned too.

www.gates.com
www.rockauto.com

Cheap belts use harder rubber compounds and usually start to crack by
50K miles. Unless you have a heat problem today's belts should easily
go over 100,000 miles without showing signs of wear except for some
stretching toward the end of the useful life. So when the belt
stretched to the limit mark on the automatic tension it gets replaced.

My habit is to change the drive belts at 60K miles no questions asked
when I do the timing belt on mine (I think yours uses a timing chain).
The two belts (PS and ALT/AC) are off already in the process and the
excellent Gates belts cost about $20+shipping online. Your 76-7/8"
serpentine K060763(?) costs $25.79 on rockauto.com and borrow
serpentine belt tool from Autozone for free.

So consider signs of wear AND belt stretch (there should be a limit
mark on engines that use automatic tensioners) on when to replace
belts.

As far air filter I do like Toyota OEM. But these shouldn't be much
more than the $8.98 aftermarket ones if you have a Toyota coupon,
right?

http://info.rockauto.com/BeckArnley/...ml?0421647.jpg



On Feb 23, 9:45 pm, "nightrider.36" <alex.cord...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
> about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>
> How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
> driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
> that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>
> I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
> technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
> replace them for about $130. The serpentine belt is original--it's
> never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
> filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
> looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
> going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
> that it's something that needs to be switched soon.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alex

"nightrider.36" <alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:526c8379-be6c-4206-86f8-2c8823d893a2@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
> about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>
> How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
> driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
> that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>
> I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
> technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
> replace them for about $130. The serpentine belt is original--it's
> never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
> filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
> looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
> going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
> that it's something that needs to be switched soon.
>


The serpentine belt does the same job today that v-belts did in yesteryear.
You can twist the belt over to see the inside surface, and inspect it for
cracks and other diamage.

A serpentine belt is easily replaced at home. You might not be up to the
challenge, but $130 seems a bit steep for an easy job, and a part that costs
about $20. The air filter is something that anybody should be able to
replace, anybody. If you are unsure of how to replace an air filter, then
you should buy a coworker a 30-pack for $20, and ask him or her to replace
these items for you. You buy the parts, of course.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:45:31 -0800 (PST), "nightrider.36"
<alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
>about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>
>How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
>driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
>that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>
>I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
>technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
>replace them for about $130.

Sounds a bit high - I'd expect the belt, the filter and the labor
for both to be between $70 and $100.

WARNING: These corporate owned chain Lube places are ALWAYS looking
for ways to pad the bills. They get you in there with their $19 or
$29 Lube & Oil Change Special - but Corporate monitors everyone's
sales, and they expect every single sales ticket to be at least $50 to
$70 depending on the chain.

Every employee and manager is expected to try and do "up-selling"
and they track them and who made the sale. And they have a very
strong incentive to get those up-sells, the sales figures are used for
pay raise and promotion decisions, and firing decisions.

In California it is a misdemeanor to sell you unnecessary services
or repairs - and occasionally the Bureau of Automotive Repair goes
after a chain to get them to stop this kind of stuff.

The best trick is up-selling you and never doing the work - KCBS Ch.
2 Los Angeles has done many stings on these chains where they parked a
camera van or two across the street and installed hidden cameras on
their bait car. Then their staffer brought the car in for an oil
change and was up-sold a transmission flush - and their "Automatic
Transmission Flushing" machine never moved from it's spot.

> The serpentine belt is original--it's
>never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
>filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
>looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
>going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
>that it's something that needs to be switched soon.

Serpentine belts are easy to change, the only trick is having the
right socket wrench or "breaker bar" to release the tensioner. If
you've never done one before or aren't strong enough to do it with one
hand, it's a lot easier with two people - one to release the tension,
and one to remove the old belt and then thread the new one on.

If it has a direct drive cooling fan, you have to thread the belt
around and through the fan and shroud to get it out, and then reverse
to get the new one in. Looks tricky, but it is done all the time.

Just make sure you have the belt aligned in all the grooves properly
before you declare it done - get a flashlight and a mechanics' hand
inspection mirror (2" x 3") on a handle to see where it sits on each
pulley. If it's off by one notch on one pulley you can wear the belt
really fast and possibly break the new belt.

There is supposed to be a belt routing diagram drawing printed on a
sticker on the radiator support - if not, draw one before you start.
It's not that intuitive if you get it off and can't figure out how to
thread the new one on.

--<< Bruce >>--

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:d6q3s3l9ge69mb3472p2krdo92miiqeq5c@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:45:31 -0800 (PST), "nightrider.36"
> <alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
>>about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>>
>>How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
>>driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
>>that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>>
>>I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
>>technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
>>replace them for about $130.
>
> Sounds a bit high - I'd expect the belt, the filter and the labor
> for both to be between $70 and $100.
>
> WARNING: These corporate owned chain Lube places are ALWAYS looking
> for ways to pad the bills. They get you in there with their $19 or
> $29 Lube & Oil Change Special - but Corporate monitors everyone's
> sales, and they expect every single sales ticket to be at least $50 to
> $70 depending on the chain.
>
> Every employee and manager is expected to try and do "up-selling"
> and they track them and who made the sale. And they have a very
> strong incentive to get those up-sells, the sales figures are used for
> pay raise and promotion decisions, and firing decisions.
>
> In California it is a misdemeanor to sell you unnecessary services
> or repairs - and occasionally the Bureau of Automotive Repair goes
> after a chain to get them to stop this kind of stuff.
>
> The best trick is up-selling you and never doing the work - KCBS Ch.
> 2 Los Angeles has done many stings on these chains where they parked a
> camera van or two across the street and installed hidden cameras on
> their bait car. Then their staffer brought the car in for an oil
> change and was up-sold a transmission flush - and their "Automatic
> Transmission Flushing" machine never moved from it's spot.
>
>> The serpentine belt is original--it's
>>never been replaced. I don't remember the last time I changed the air
>>filter. But the serpentine belt had small cracks on the iside and
>>looked a little worn on the outside. I wasn't surprised that he was
>>going to say something about the belt because it's been on my mind
>>that it's something that needs to be switched soon.
>
> Serpentine belts are easy to change, the only trick is having the
> right socket wrench or "breaker bar" to release the tensioner. If
> you've never done one before or aren't strong enough to do it with one
> hand, it's a lot easier with two people - one to release the tension,
> and one to remove the old belt and then thread the new one on.
>
> If it has a direct drive cooling fan, you have to thread the belt
> around and through the fan and shroud to get it out, and then reverse
> to get the new one in. Looks tricky, but it is done all the time.
>
> Just make sure you have the belt aligned in all the grooves properly
> before you declare it done - get a flashlight and a mechanics' hand
> inspection mirror (2" x 3") on a handle to see where it sits on each
> pulley. If it's off by one notch on one pulley you can wear the belt
> really fast and possibly break the new belt.
>
> There is supposed to be a belt routing diagram drawing printed on a
> sticker on the radiator support - if not, draw one before you start.
> It's not that intuitive if you get it off and can't figure out how to
> thread the new one on.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>

What Bruce said, plus ---

The pullies are either smooth or ribbed. The OUSIDE surface of the belt
rides on the smooth pullies, the INSIDE surface of the belt rides on the
ribbed pullies. There is a map that shows how the belt is routed, but if you
can't find the map, follow the rule about smooth and ribbed, and the belt
will properly route itself.

If you have a spring loaded tensioner -- the most common these days -- you
will need a 1/2" breaker bar or ratchet handle to release the tensioner and
set it again. The giant spring defines the proper tension.

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:45:31 -0800 (PST), "nightrider.36"
> <alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
>> about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>>
>> How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
>> driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
>> that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>>
>> I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
>> technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
>> replace them for about $130.
>
> Sounds a bit high - I'd expect the belt, the filter and the labor
> for both to be between $70 and $100.
>
> WARNING: These corporate owned chain Lube places are ALWAYS looking
> for ways to pad the bills. They get you in there with their $19 or
> $29 Lube & Oil Change Special - but Corporate monitors everyone's
> sales, and they expect every single sales ticket to be at least $50 to
> $70 depending on the chain.
>
> Every employee and manager is expected to try and do "up-selling"
> and they track them and who made the sale. And they have a very
> strong incentive to get those up-sells, the sales figures are used for
> pay raise and promotion decisions, and firing decisions.
>
> In California it is a misdemeanor to sell you unnecessary services
> or repairs - and occasionally the Bureau of Automotive Repair goes
> after a chain to get them to stop this kind of stuff.
>
> The best trick is up-selling you and never doing the work - KCBS Ch.
> 2 Los Angeles has done many stings on these chains where they parked a
> camera van or two across the street and installed hidden cameras on
> their bait car. Then their staffer brought the car in for an oil
> change and was up-sold a transmission flush - and their "Automatic
> Transmission Flushing" machine never moved from it's spot.

I would not say that all corporate chains are like this. But if you were
a corporate chain, would you want the manager that makes more sells or
does only what is needed?

However, I would add that some shops dealers are like this.

<...>

Jeff

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
newsPmwj.6700$6h7.5703@trnddc04...
> Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:45:31 -0800 (PST), "nightrider.36"
>> <alex.cordero@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I'm the happy owner of an 04 Matrix XRS with 68,000 miles--
>>> about 60% of those being freeway miles.
>>>
>>> How long do serpentine belts last in these cars? Does it depend on my
>>> driving habbits--like the brakes and the clutch? Is this something
>>> that should best be replaced by the dealer?
>>>
>>> I got the oil changed this afternoon at an Econo Lube N' Tune. The
>>> technician showed me the serpetine belt and air filter and offered to
>>> replace them for about $130.
>>
>> Sounds a bit high - I'd expect the belt, the filter and the labor
>> for both to be between $70 and $100.
>>
>> WARNING: These corporate owned chain Lube places are ALWAYS looking
>> for ways to pad the bills. They get you in there with their $19 or
>> $29 Lube & Oil Change Special - but Corporate monitors everyone's
>> sales, and they expect every single sales ticket to be at least $50 to
>> $70 depending on the chain. Every employee and manager is expected to
>> try and do "up-selling"
>> and they track them and who made the sale. And they have a very
>> strong incentive to get those up-sells, the sales figures are used for
>> pay raise and promotion decisions, and firing decisions.
>>
>> In California it is a misdemeanor to sell you unnecessary services
>> or repairs - and occasionally the Bureau of Automotive Repair goes
>> after a chain to get them to stop this kind of stuff.
>>
>> The best trick is up-selling you and never doing the work - KCBS Ch.
>> 2 Los Angeles has done many stings on these chains where they parked a
>> camera van or two across the street and installed hidden cameras on
>> their bait car. Then their staffer brought the car in for an oil
>> change and was up-sold a transmission flush - and their "Automatic
>> Transmission Flushing" machine never moved from it's spot.
>
> I would not say that all corporate chains are like this. But if you were a
> corporate chain, would you want the manager that makes more sells or does
> only what is needed?
>
> However, I would add that some shops dealers are like this.
>
> <...>
>
> Jeff


It's good to sell a lot. How you do it and whether you deliver are another
story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:10:13 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

>> WARNING: These corporate owned chain Lube places are ALWAYS looking
>> for ways to pad the bills. They get you in there with their $19 or
>> $29 Lube & Oil Change Special - but Corporate monitors everyone's
>> sales, and they expect every single sales ticket to be at least $50 to
>> $70 depending on the chain.
>>
>> Every employee and manager is expected to try and do "up-selling"
>> and they track them and who made the sale. And they have a very
>> strong incentive to get those up-sells, the sales figures are used for
>> pay raise and promotion decisions, and firing decisions.
>>
>> In California it is a misdemeanor to sell you unnecessary services
>> or repairs - and occasionally the Bureau of Automotive Repair goes
>> after a chain to get them to stop this kind of stuff.
>
>I would not say that all corporate chains are like this. But if you were
>a corporate chain, would you want the manager that makes more sells or
>does only what is needed?
>
>However, I would add that some shops dealers are like this.

Dealers do it, Chains do it, even some independent shops in big
cities (where they can get away with it because there's always a fresh
supply of suckers) do it. But just because "everyone else does it!"
doesn't make it acceptable.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out things that
honestly need to be done - like spotting front brake pads with 1/16"
left on them that need to be changed within a few days.

I actually use their reports to judge the competency of the service
center and mechanics, because I normally have a pretty good idea of
what's going on before I take the car in. If they do NOT mention that
the rear brakes are getting close, or that there's a little oil leak
from that spot I've been watching, I wonder if they even bothered to
look over the car for other problems, to find the ones that I didn't
know about - they've got it up on a lift which I can't do.

But I resent it when they try inventing problems that don't exist,
or elevate a minor concern to a emergency just to pad the bill.
Especially if they try to make that "emergency" into "we won't let you
drive out of here like that without signing a waiver" to scare you
into getting the work done Right Now without getting estimates.

And when they try selling me something I KNOW is not necessary,
alarm bells go off - One dealer shop would automatically charge for a
bottle of windshield washer solvent on every visit, even though I
filled it with fresh solvent the night before. It's "only a $5 item"
but it's the principle, they had to correct the bill.

Then they tried it again, after I specifically told them on the way
in that I just filled it the night before, do NOT charge for it
automatically - or take it back off before you hand me the bill...
They did. And this is why I don't go to Keyes Toyota anymore. Sales
or service.

But when they try to sell you a service like a "Super Duper Power
Transmission Flush" for $175 that is of /very/ dubious added value
over a conventional transmission drain screen and 3-quart fill service
that only costs you $60 and accomplishes the same thing - and the
"Flush" leaves the dirty screen or filter in place because they never
drop the pan and look at it... Well, then there is a problem.

When they don't even DO THE WORK then say it's "All Done!" and take
your money, that's a whole 'nother level of crooked.

--<< Bruce >>--