I will keep it simple.

I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
the fuse did not blow to the radio, it is kind of fried.

The car will not start, it turns over (strong):
I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
does not come on at all, the bulb is not blown. I have swapped out
the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
cause the car to not start based on what I have discribed. I have
been thinking about the timing module, but I am not sire that it will
keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
might not be getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
not figure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help

I don't know your car specifically, but there are two or three fuse boxes,
typically one under the dash in the footwell above or beside the clutch
pedal, and another in the engine bay.

Given the arc welding session you described, I'd bet you blew a fuse that
you have not found yet.

The Check light failure says the computer is not getting power. The other
symptoms also say that the computer is not getting power.





<DearCheify@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I will keep it simple.
>
> I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> the fuse did not blow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> The car will not start, it turns over (strong):
> I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> does not come on at all, the bulb is not blown. I have swapped out
> the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> cause the car to not start based on what I have discribed. I have
> been thinking about the timing module, but I am not sire that it will
> keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> might not be getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> not figure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help

I don't think it needs to be as complex as you first start out.
Autozone's free guide doesn't include schematics for the Corolla, but
it's useful for other referneces. You can go to Pep Boys and check the
Haynes manual or use the online 93 Camry as a guide.

Check the 15A EFI fuse and 100A ALT link, I think those are upstream
of the fuel pump relay, at least on a Camry.

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm




On Apr 7, 5:34 pm, DearChe...@gmail.com wrote:
> I will keep it simple.
>
> I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> the fuse did not blow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> The car will not start, it turns over (strong):
> I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> does not come on at all, the bulb is not blown. I have swapped out
> the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> cause the car to not start based on what I have discribed. I have
> been thinking about the timing module, but I am not sire that it will
> keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> might not be getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> not figure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help

<DearCheify@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I will keep it simple.
>
> I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> the fuse did not blow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> The car will not start, it turns over (strong):
> I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> does not come on at all, the bulb is not blown. I have swapped out
> the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> cause the car to not start based on what I have discribed. I have
> been thinking about the timing module, but I am not sire that it will
> keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> might not be getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> not figure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help

What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"

How did you check the circuit opening relay? If you used a scan tool, the
best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
and controlled side of the relay.

Start by checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including the
one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.

The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
cranking. If it is bad, the fuel pump will not be energized.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Apr 8, 12:44*am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >Iwillkeep it simple.
>
> > I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> > the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> > with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. *The radio stopped working,
> > the fuse didnotblow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> > The carwillnotstart, it turns over (strong):
> > * * I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> > plugs, I am getting power to the coil. *I have read out the relay
> > mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. *I have hooked a scan tool up
> > with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. *Oh,
> > and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> > doesnotcome on at all, the bulb isnotblown. *I have swapped out
> > the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> > confirmed it was tested. *(I know it is possible that it might be
> > junk, they have a money back policy) *Can anyone tell me what could
> > cause the car tonotstartbased on what I have discribed. *I have
> > been thinking about the timing module, but I amnotsire that itwill
> > keep the fuel pump from powering up. *I have also thought that the ECM
> > mightnotbe getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> >notfigure out which relay if any, that I should check. *Please help
>
> What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"
>
> How did you check the circuit opening relay? *If you used a scan tool, the
> best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
> and controlled side of the relay.
>
> Startby checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including the
> one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.
>
> The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
> cranking. *If it is bad, the fuel pumpwillnotbe energized.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did a cintunuity check with it energized and unenergized, you know
with a volt meter

"Tony" <DearCheify@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:21538626-bf32-462f-a1e5-b6027f108694@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 8, 12:44 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >Iwillkeep it simple.
>
> > I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> > the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> > with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> > the fuse didnotblow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> > The carwillnotstart, it turns over (strong):
> > I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> > plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> > mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> > with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> > and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> > doesnotcome on at all, the bulb isnotblown. I have swapped out
> > the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> > confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> > junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> > cause the car tonotstartbased on what I have discribed. I have
> > been thinking about the timing module, but I amnotsire that itwill
> > keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> > mightnotbe getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> >notfigure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help
>
> What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"
>
> How did you check the circuit opening relay? If you used a scan tool, the
> best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
> and controlled side of the relay.
>
> Startby checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including
> the
> one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.
>
> The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
> cranking. If it is bad, the fuel pumpwillnotbe energized.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did a cintunuity check with it energized and unenergized, you know
with a volt meter
************
With the relay energized, did you have continuity between the two terminals
on the controlled side?

Is there 12 volts at the socket for the circuit opening relay when the
engine is cranking?

When you got the spark under the dash, you probably blew a fuse or fusible
link somewhere. Did you check every fuse?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Apr 8, 12:44*am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >Iwillkeep it simple.
>
> > I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> > the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> > with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. *The radio stopped working,
> > the fuse didnotblow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> > The carwillnotstart, it turns over (strong):
> > * * I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> > plugs, I am getting power to the coil. *I have read out the relay
> > mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. *I have hooked a scan tool up
> > with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. *Oh,
> > and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> > doesnotcome on at all, the bulb isnotblown. *I have swapped out
> > the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> > confirmed it was tested. *(I know it is possible that it might be
> > junk, they have a money back policy) *Can anyone tell me what could
> > cause the car tonotstartbased on what I have discribed. *I have
> > been thinking about the timing module, but I amnotsire that itwill
> > keep the fuel pump from powering up. *I have also thought that the ECM
> > mightnotbe getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> >notfigure out which relay if any, that I should check. *Please help
>
> What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"
>
> How did you check the circuit opening relay? *If you used a scan tool, the
> best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
> and controlled side of the relay.
>
> Startby checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including the
> one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.
>
> The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
> cranking. *If it is bad, the fuel pumpwillnotbe energized.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did use a multi meter, I checked it while energized and
unenergized. You are to addressing the no spark issue, I feel that
they are related. I have pretty much ruled out the circuit opening
relay. What one component can cause both symptoms: no spark no power
to the fuel pump? And also remember, my check engine light does not
work, the circuit opening relay can not cause that. What do you think
about it being the timing module?

"Tony" <DearCheify@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:73aa2798-02d7-4cfe-a69f-60addba9e5fc@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 8, 12:44 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >Iwillkeep it simple.
>
> > I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> > the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> > with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> > the fuse didnotblow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> > The carwillnotstart, it turns over (strong):
> > I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> > plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> > mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> > with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> > and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> > doesnotcome on at all, the bulb isnotblown. I have swapped out
> > the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> > confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> > junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> > cause the car tonotstartbased on what I have discribed. I have
> > been thinking about the timing module, but I amnotsire that itwill
> > keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> > mightnotbe getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> >notfigure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help
>
> What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"
>
> How did you check the circuit opening relay? If you used a scan tool, the
> best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
> and controlled side of the relay.
>
> Startby checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including
> the
> one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.
>
> The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
> cranking. If it is bad, the fuel pumpwillnotbe energized.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I did use a multi meter, I checked it while energized and
unenergized. You are to addressing the no spark issue, I feel that
they are related. I have pretty much ruled out the circuit opening
relay. What one component can cause both symptoms: no spark no power
to the fuel pump? And also remember, my check engine light does not
work, the circuit opening relay can not cause that. What do you think
about it being the timing module?
*************
It would help me help you a lot if you stuck to one thread. It took a while
for me to catch on that you also posted about the spark under the dash and
whether the ECM is good.

I apologize if I go over some of the same questions over and over, but it
helps if I am clear on what you are finding and how you tested or checked
something, and it helps if you answer my questions directly.

When you say that there is no power to the fuel pump, did you check for
voltage at the fuel pump connector while cranking the engine? Just having
the ignition switch in the on position does not provide power to the fuel
pump.

When you say that the check engine light does not work, is this with the
ignition switch is on with the motor off?

I can think of three things off the top of my head that would cause no power
at the fuel pump and no spark - the EFI main relay and fuse and the ECM.

You mentioned in the other thread that you got a spark under the dash when
you were removing the radio. Is the factory wiring harness cut or damaged?

Did you find what sparked and repair the exposed wire?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Apr 9, 12:46*am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
> "Tony" <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:73aa2798-02d7-4cfe-a69f-60addba9e5fc@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 8, 12:44 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <DearChe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:fe010812-fb18-45d6-b1e3-6ae9e9afcab0@1g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >Iwillkeep it simple.
>
> > > I had a spark under the dash while removing the radio (a wire touched
> > > the mount that holds the "Circuit Openening Relay/Fuel pump Relay),
> > > with the key in the "Accessory" poistion. The radio stopped working,
> > > the fuse didnotblow to the radio, it is kind of fried.
>
> > > The carwillnotstart, it turns over (strong):
> > > I am getting no power to the fuel pump, no spark to the spark
> > > plugs, I am getting power to the coil. I have read out the relay
> > > mentioned above aswell as the EFI relay. I have hooked a scan tool up
> > > with no luck, I get an error reading "Check Connection" error. Oh,
> > > and I almost forgot the most important part, my check engine light
> > > doesnotcome on at all, the bulb isnotblown. I have swapped out
> > > the ECM, I did get it from one of those online junk yards that
> > > confirmed it was tested. (I know it is possible that it might be
> > > junk, they have a money back policy) Can anyone tell me what could
> > > cause the car tonotstartbased on what I have discribed. I have
> > > been thinking about the timing module, but I amnotsire that itwill
> > > keep the fuel pump from powering up. I have also thought that the ECM
> > > mightnotbe getting power because of a blown fuse/relay, but I can
> > >notfigure out which relay if any, that I should check. Please help
>
> > What do you mean when you say that you "read out the relay?"
>
> > How did you check the circuit opening relay? If you used a scan tool, the
> > best way to check a relay is with a multimeter, checking both the control
> > and controlled side of the relay.
>
> > Startby checking all of the fuses, fusible links, and relays, including
> > the
> > one under the driver's side of the dashboard and the one under the hood.
>
> > The circuit opening relay controls the fuel pump while the engine is
> > cranking. If it is bad, the fuel pumpwillnotbe energized.
> > --
>
> > Ray O
> > (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I did use a multi meter, I checked it while energized and
> unenergized. *You are to addressing the no spark issue, I feel that
> they are related. *I have pretty much ruled out the circuit opening
> relay. *What one component can cause both symptoms: no spark no power
> to the fuel pump? *And also remember, my check engine light does not
> work, the circuit opening relay can not cause that. *What do you think
> about it being the timing module?
> *************
> It would help me help you a lot if you stuck to one thread. *It took a while
> for me to catch on that you also posted about the spark under the dash and
> whether the ECM is good.
>
> I apologize if I go over some of the same questions over and over, but it
> helps if I am clear on what you are finding and how you tested or checked
> something, and it helps if you answer my questions directly.
>
> When you say that there is no power to the fuel pump, did you check for
> voltage at the fuel pump connector while cranking the engine? *Just having
> the ignition switch in the on position does not provide power to the fuel
> pump.


>
> When you say that the check engine light does not work, is this with the
> ignition switch is on with the motor off?
>
> I can think of three things off the top of my head that would cause no power
> at the fuel pump and no spark - the EFI main relay and fuse and the ECM.
>
> You mentioned in the other thread that you got a spark under the dash when
> you were removing the radio. *Is the factory wiring harness cut or damaged?
>
> Did you find what sparked and repair the exposed wire?
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ray O

I am pleased that you are trying to help me, so please do not think
that I am being short with you, I am not meaning to sound that way.

Yes I have checked for voltage at the fuel pump while cranking, I am
not even getting the initial voltage at the pump when I first turn the
key to Accessories.

The check engine light never comes on, under any conditions. It used
to when I turned the key to on without the engine running

You mentioned the EFI relay and fuse, I have checked those and they
are good. I do feel that the ECM must have a power source that has a
fuse or something in it that is bad, because the likely hood of
putting two ECM's in with the identical problem are slim.

The factory wire harness is not cut, it is perfectly intact.

I did find the exposed wire, and have corrected it. But as you can
see, I am way passed being concerned about that wire, I have removed
the radio from the car.

Ironically, my dad is coming to visit, and he has a 97 Toyota
Corolla. What we plan on doing is swapping relays from his to mine
until it hopefully starts. His an automatic, so swapping the ECM if
we were to get that far is out of the question. But the relays should
all be the same.

I will keep you posted,

T

I don't want to be 'difficult' but several people, including Ray, have
suggested that you need to check all the fuses, fusible links, and
relays, and you seem to be resisting that suggestion. This is clearly
a pain on a Toyota since there seem to be fuses and relays all over
the place (and maybe fusible links) - but your problem could still be
as simple as a blown fuse. Also, as Ray has suggested, maybe you are
not getting power to one of those relays that you have been working
with. While I can understand your frustration I would think the way
to locate this problem is to proceed step by step - it would also help
if you had a wiring diagram. I also have some doubts abt swapping
relays from a later car into an earlier car unless they you are REALLY
REALLY sure they are, in fact, the same relay.

If I had to suggest anything 'concrete' it would be that you are on
the right track but you need to be careful not to decide in advance
what your 'problem' may be and go step by step and be VERY careful.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.