Have any of you seen this documentary?

It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've talked
about here, including the higher tech batteries they're working on now.

But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.

It's a shame.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:44:02 -0500, Sarah Houston
<SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote:

>Have any of you seen this documentary?
>
>It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've talked
>about here, including the higher tech batteries they're working on now.
>
>But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
>
>It's a shame.

Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did. Electric
cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most practical
automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were compairable to
the shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing. They had limited
range but so does a horse. They were slow and so was a horse. They
were uncomfortable as was a horse.

Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of
the electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is
why the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is
gasoline to power cars.

Jack

Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180@windstream.net> wrote :

> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:44:02 -0500, Sarah Houston
><SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Have any of you seen this documentary?
>>
>>It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've
>>talked about here, including the higher tech batteries they're
>>working on now.
>>
>>But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
>>
>>It's a shame.
>
> Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did.
> Electric cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most
> practical automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were
> compairable to the shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing.
> They had limited range but so does a horse. They were slow and so
> was a horse. They were uncomfortable as was a horse.
>
> Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of
> the electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is
> why the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is
> gasoline to power cars.
>
> Jack

No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...c_Car/70052424

This is about modern comfortable electric cars.

It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:04:09 -0500, Sarah Houston wrote:

> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180@windstream.net> wrote :
>
>> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:44:02 -0500, Sarah Houston
>><SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Have any of you seen this documentary?
>>>
>>>It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've
>>>talked about here, including the higher tech batteries they're working
>>>on now.
>>>
>>>But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
>>>
>>>It's a shame.
>>
>> Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did. Electric
>> cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most practical
>> automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were compairable to the
>> shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing. They had limited range
>> but so does a horse. They were slow and so was a horse. They were
>> uncomfortable as was a horse.
>>
>> Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of the
>> electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is why
>> the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is gasoline
>> to power cars.
>>
>> Jack
>
> No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:
>
> http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...c_Car/70052424
>
> This is about modern comfortable electric cars.
>
> It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!


Is this that documentary about the GM car that they stored in the desert
for a few years and then destroyed?

The only thing I can figure is that GM discovered something wrong with the
cars and wanted to get rid of them before anyone found out...

On Apr 8, 11:36 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B <Tru...@ae86.gts> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:04:09 -0500, Sarah Houston wrote:
> > Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....@windstream.net> wrote :
>
> >> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:44:02 -0500, Sarah Houston
> >><SHo...@pndfnospam.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Have any of you seen this documentary?
>
> >>>It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've
> >>>talked about here, including the higher tech batteries they're working
> >>>on now.
>
> >>>But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
>
> >>>It's a shame.
>
> >> Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did. Electric
> >> cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most practical
> >> automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were compairable to the
> >> shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing. They had limited range
> >> but so does a horse. They were slow and so was a horse. They were
> >> uncomfortable as was a horse.
>
> >> Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of the
> >> electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is why
> >> the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is gasoline
> >> to power cars.
>
> >> Jack
>
> > No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:
>
> >http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...c_Car/70052424
>
> > This is about modern comfortable electric cars.
>
> > It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!
>
> Is this that documentary about the GM car that they stored in the desert
> for a few years and then destroyed?
>
> The only thing I can figure is that GM discovered something wrong with the
> cars and wanted to get rid of them before anyone found out...

Yup its a nice movie and a great car for regular city driving. You can
see that the owners were very unhappy when they turned over their cars
at the end of the lease. The GM office in Burbank CA where they
protested was just a few blocks from my apartment. When I left
California a year ago, there were still many electric charging
stations around the city, but I'm not sure if those were still
connected to a power source. An electric car wont work for me, my
current commute is 30 miles one way and I dont think there will allow
charging in my workplace =)

Sarah Houston wrote:

>Have any of you seen this documentary?

The main problem with electric cars is the 1.5 - 3.0 gallon fuel
tank. I don't mean that literally, but a battery pack can put out
only as much energy as that much gasoline.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:04:09 -0500, Sarah Houston
<SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote:

>Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180@windstream.net> wrote :
>
>> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:44:02 -0500, Sarah Houston
>><SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Have any of you seen this documentary?
>>>
>>>It's really interesting and is relevant to some of the things we've
>>>talked about here, including the higher tech batteries they're
>>>working on now.
>>>
>>>But it seems that back then, Toyota helped kill electric cars.
>>>
>>>It's a shame.
>>
>> Toyota didn't kill the electric car, the gasoline engine did.
>> Electric cars were selling great around 1900, they were the most
>> practical automobiles then available. Their shortcomings were
>> compairable to the shortcomings of the vehicle they were replacing.
>> They had limited range but so does a horse. They were slow and so
>> was a horse. They were uncomfortable as was a horse.
>>
>> Practical gasoline engines did away with most of the shortcomings of
>> the electric car and that is what killed the electric car. And it is
>> why the electric car will always be a footnote as long as their is
>> gasoline to power cars.
>>
>> Jack
>
>No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:
>
>http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...c_Car/70052424
>
>This is about modern comfortable electric cars.
>
>It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!

Show me the electric car that can go 300 to 400 miles before it needs
to sit for 8 hours and recharge. Show me an electric car that can
refuel in about 10 minutes and then go for another 300 to 400 miles
like my Corolla. And don't talk to me about hybrids, they are
gasoline powered cars just like my Corolla.

Yes, I was talking about ancient history. I said in 1900 electric
cars sold well and I listed the reasons. I also listed the reasons
why they don't sell very well today.

Go back and read what I said. Toyota didn't kill the electric car. GM
didn't kill the electric car. The electric car died because it didn't
sell. It didn't sell because gasoline powered cars fulfilled needs
that electric cars didn't. You may be unhappy about that fact but
your tears and wailing won't change those facts.

Jack

"Sarah Houston" <SHoust@pndfnospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A7AD6553DA2ASntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196. 97.142...
> No, you're talking ancient history. See this documentary:
>
> http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Kil...c_Car/70052424
>
> This is about modern comfortable electric cars.
>
> It's outrageous what happened. Rent it and see!

This documentary was not "fair and balanced." It was a typical liberal
one side anti-reality production (aka Al Gore's approach). It ignores
the fact that although the owners loved them, they weren't paying the
true cost of ownership. GM built and leased the cars at a significant
loss. Maintaining the cars was going to be expensive. If they sold the
cars to the owners, GM would have legally been on the hook to supply
repair parts that they were not prepared to build. There were
liability issues that GM was not prepared to address. NHTSA issued a
waiver allowing GM to lease these cars even though they did not meet
all the current Federal Safety Standards. See
http://www.answers.com/topic/general-motors-ev1 for a more balanced
discussion of why GM did not allow people to keep these cars.

Ford did a similar thing with electric Ranger trucks, except a few did
end up in private hands. At least for the Ranger, many parts were just
standard Ranger parts and the trucks actually met Federal Safety
Standards. I have seen electric Rangers for sale on EBay. I wouldn't
mind having one for a farm runabout.

Ed

Not so, the GM electric cars were built with several exemptions to the NHTSA
regulations as test vehicles. As a result they could not be sold, only
leased by GM. ALL had to be retuned and destroyed after the test period had
expired.

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
newsQWKj.4335$N62.2246@trndny07...
> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:04:09 -0500, Sarah Houston wrote:
>
>> Retired VIP <j
>
> Is this that documentary about the GM car that they stored in the desert
> for a few years and then destroyed?
>
> The only thing I can figure is that GM discovered something wrong with the
> cars and wanted to get rid of them before anyone found out...
>
>

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:15:25 -0700, EdV wrote:

>> Is this that documentary about the GM car that they stored in the desert
>> for a few years and then destroyed?
>>
>> The only thing I can figure is that GM discovered something wrong with
>> the cars and wanted to get rid of them before anyone found out...
>
> Yup its a nice movie and a great car for regular city driving. You can see
> that the owners were very unhappy when they turned over their cars at the
> end of the lease.

It was documented in the WSJ and Car And Driver and AutoWeek. Sad story...


> The GM office in Burbank CA where they protested was
> just a few blocks from my apartment. When I left California a year ago,
> there were still many electric charging stations around the city, but I'm
> not sure if those were still connected to a power source. An electric car
> wont work for me, my current commute is 30 miles one way and I dont think
> there will allow charging in my workplace =)


Mine did, when I was working in VT.

When I bought the Scion, a cell in the battery went bad, and I pulled up
to the charging station at work marked "Electric Vehicles Only" and
plugged in the charger. People were asking me all day, "Is *THAT* an
electric car?!?!?!"