One thing I noticed when the oil had finished dripping into the
15-quart drain pan is a lot of grit in the oil.

The drain pan is the kind that is round and covered with
a permanently closed lid that has a small hole in the lid's
middle where the oil can fall into the pan. The lid has
a downwardly sloping surface that leads to the hole.

Almost all of the oil went down the hole, but a thin layer
remained on the round lid. Within the thin layer of oil was
something that kind of felt like grit. Each particle was probably
about the size of a grain of sand, or smaller. I'd say there were
about 4 particles of grit per square inch. What do you think that
was?

On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:42:25 -0700, Built_Well wrote:

>
> One thing I noticed when the oil had finished dripping into the 15-quart
> drain pan is a lot of grit in the oil.
>
> The drain pan is the kind that is round and covered with a permanently
> closed lid that has a small hole in the lid's middle where the oil can
> fall into the pan. The lid has a downwardly sloping surface that leads to
> the hole.
>
> Almost all of the oil went down the hole, but a thin layer remained on the
> round lid. Within the thin layer of oil was something that kind of felt
> like grit. Each particle was probably about the size of a grain of sand,
> or smaller. I'd say there were about 4 particles of grit per square inch.
> What do you think that was?

See if it sticks to a magnet...

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c27787c-90af-4b3d-b854-3c4da2c0484e@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> One thing I noticed when the oil had finished dripping into the
> 15-quart drain pan is a lot of grit in the oil.
>
> The drain pan is the kind that is round and covered with
> a permanently closed lid that has a small hole in the lid's
> middle where the oil can fall into the pan. The lid has
> a downwardly sloping surface that leads to the hole.
>
> Almost all of the oil went down the hole, but a thin layer
> remained on the round lid. Within the thin layer of oil was
> something that kind of felt like grit. Each particle was probably
> about the size of a grain of sand, or smaller. I'd say there were
> about 4 particles of grit per square inch. What do you think that
> was?

The grit is probably road debris that got washed down the side of the engine
block by the oil that dripped when you removed the oil filter. The next
time you change your oil, check to see if the grit is there after you have
drained the oil but before you remove the oil filter. My guess is that the
grit will not be there until after you have removed the oil filter.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On May 19, 9:42*pm, Built_Well <Built_Well_Toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> One thing I noticed when the oil had finished dripping into the
> 15-quart drain pan is a lot of grit in the oil.
>
> The drain pan is the kind that is round and covered with
> a permanently closed lid that has a small hole in the lid's
> middle where the oil can fall into the pan. *The lid has
> a downwardly sloping surface that leads to the hole.
>
> Almost all of the oil went down the hole, but a thin layer
> remained on the round lid. *Within the thin layer of oil was
> something that kind of felt like grit. *Each particle was probably
> about the size of a grain of sand, or smaller. *I'd say there were
> about 4 particles of grit per square inch. *What do you think that
> was?

Try a toyota oil filter, one thing I could guess is a bad bypass valve
opening when the motor is cold and run to hard. The grit is likely
sludge and would indicate a shorter interval would be better and use a
better oil.

Built_Well wrote:

> I think my next oil will be Amsoil ASL 5w-30. It's suppose to be
> even better than PP, and I want to hear how my engine sounds with it.
> I noticed a marked difference in engine sound when I switched from
> dino to Mobil 1 synthetic. Here's something new: It looks like the
> Amsoil
> web site now ships oil directly to your door instead of requiring
> you to contact a local distributor.

Note that the Amsoil ASL 5W30 is not API certified. As long as you're
out of warranty, and don't care about the effects on your catalytic
converter, go ahead, but you really should stick with an API certified
synthetic. The best one is probably Royal Purple, but it's very
expensive, and it's highly questionable as whether it's worth the extra
cost, especially since you're changing your oil far more than necessary
already.

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ebcbc82-f571-4286-a092-6882606c4d21@v26g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ray O wrote:
>>
>> The next time you change your oil, check to see if the grit is
>> there after you have drained the oil but before you remove the
>> oil filter. My guess is that the grit will not be there until
>> after you have removed the oil filter.
>
> Okay Ray O, you bet I'll be extra watchful next time I change the
> oil :-)
>

If you are using an OEM filter, I doubt if the grit was actually in the oil.

> Ransley, thanks for the suggestions, but I'm on it. My car has
> always used OEM Toyota filters, and the oil is about the best
> synthetic you can get: Pennzoil Platinum (PP). The oil change
> interval
> was only 4,000 miles, which is 1,000 less than the 5,000
> recommended. I did stretch the time to 7 months, instead of 6,
> but I don't think that made much of a difference. Thanks for the
> ideas, though.
>
> Ray O, dunno if this is surprising, but I got much more oil on me
> when I removed the oil filter than the drain plug.
>
> I think my next oil will be Amsoil ASL 5w-30. It's suppose to be
> even better than PP, and I want to hear how my engine sounds with it.
> I noticed a marked difference in engine sound when I switched from
> dino to Mobil 1 synthetic. Here's something new: It looks like the
> Amsoil
> web site now ships oil directly to your door instead of requiring
> you to contact a local distributor.

If you look at Amsoil's web page for their ASK oil:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx
they say that it is recommended for use for various certifications but if
you read carefully, they do not say who is recommending the oil (I suspect
that it is Amsoil and not the automakers) and they do not say that the oil
actually meets those certifications. Most oil suppliers will say that their
oil meets this or that certification.

If you want Toyota to warrant your engine during the warranty coverage
period, use API certified oil. Amsoil may or may not be great stuff, but I
am always a little skeptical of claims without any kind of warranty to back
them up.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Built_Well" <Built_Well_Toyota@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ebcbc82-f571-4286-a092-6882606c4d21@v26g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>
<snipped>

> Ray O, dunno if this is surprising, but I got much more oil on me
> when I removed the oil filter than the drain plug.
>

Are you removing the oil filter from under the car? If so, it is not
surprising.

Try removing the oil filter from above - you will get a lot less oil on you.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ray O wrote:
>
> If you want Toyota to warrant your engine during the
> warranty coverage period, use API certified oil. Amsoil
> may or may not be great stuff, but I am always a little
> skeptical of claims without any kind of warranty to back
> them up.
========

Ray O, I was surprised to learn this, but Amsoil does apparently
carry 2 lines of API-*certified* oil: one gasoline line and one
diesel line, according to the Wikipedia entry on AMSOIL.

The gasoline engine line of API-certified products begins with
XL. The 5w-30 viscosity would be XLF.

Some of the Wiki entry:

"Another common misconception is that motor oils must be
API certified in order to meet warranty requirements. The
fact is, lubricants are not required to be certified by the
API, only meet or exceed API specifications. An API license
indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed
the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of
laboratory bench tests that include physical, chemical and
engine tests.

"API licensing was originally developed for mineral-based
oils. Petroleum motor oil companies can take advantage of
the convenience and flexibility associated with base stock
interchange, which allows them to buy petroleum base stocks
from any number of suppliers without being required to
re-test and re-certify their products. This ensures adequate
supply and competitive pricing. Most synthetic base stocks,
on the other hand, are supplier specific and base stock
interchange is not allowed. If, for instance, if AMSOIL
wanted to blend an API-approved motor oil using the same
type of base stock from a different supplier, the oil would
have to be re-tested and re-certified."

Built_Well wrote:

> Some of the Wiki entry:
>
> "Another common misconception is that motor oils must be
> API certified in order to meet warranty requirements. The
> fact is, lubricants are not required to be certified by the
> API, only meet or exceed API specifications. An API license
> indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed
> the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of
> laboratory bench tests that include physical, chemical and
> engine tests.
>
> "API licensing was originally developed for mineral-based
> oils. Petroleum motor oil companies can take advantage of
> the convenience and flexibility associated with base stock
> interchange, which allows them to buy petroleum base stocks
> from any number of suppliers without being required to
> re-test and re-certify their products. This ensures adequate
> supply and competitive pricing. Most synthetic base stocks,
> on the other hand, are supplier specific and base stock
> interchange is not allowed. If, for instance, if AMSOIL
> wanted to blend an API-approved motor oil using the same
> type of base stock from a different supplier, the oil would
> have to be re-tested and re-certified."

That entry is incorrect. Totally incorrect. Actually it's a bald-faced lie.

The reason that Amsoil doesn't have certification on all of their
products is simply because the products don't meet the API specification
because they have too much ZDP and hence too much phosphorus (which is
limited by the API because it poisons the catalytic converter).

Here's an e-mail from Amsoil that explains it (I'm sure this person got
into a lot of trouble for letting the truth slip out):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Selbrede, Byron" <byr...@amsoil.com>
To: "'no...@pinn.net'" <n...@pinn.net>
Subject: RE: Technical Service Contact Form
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:18:15 -0500

"Actually it's the amount of phosphorus that is regulated-- but that is
directly related to the amount of zinc that can be used as they
are combined as zinc dithio phosphate (ZDP). This is only regulated in 2
viscosity grades, 5W30 and 10W30. Other than the Series 7500, AMSOIL
lubes all contain more ZDP than can be used in an API licensed oil. For
examples of our ZDP levels refer to data sheets for AMO, ARO, AMF or AMV."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people may feel that a shorter catalytic converter life is worth
the extra engine protection afforded by the higher level of ZDP, but you
never know what kind of excuses an automaker will come up with to get
out of performing warranty service, even when the problem is unrelated
to something like the oil. The best bet is to avoid non-certified oils
until the end of the warranty, including the emissions warranty.

Remember, the warranty fore emissions related components is 8 years/
80,000 miles. Avoid non-API oils during this time. Use one of the Amsoil
API certified synthetic base stock oils, or one of the many other
certified synthetic base stock oils. They're all pretty much the same
when you're using them on something like a Camry, which doesn't have a
high performance engine (of course an oil with mineral base stock is
also just as good).

SMS wrote:
>
> Remember, the warranty fore emissions related components
> is 8 years/80,000 miles. Avoid non-API oils during this time.
========

8 years? According to Edmunds.com: "Emissions equipment is
required by Federal law to be covered for five years or
50,000 miles."

Are you saying Toyota warrants emissions equipment for
3 years longer than federal law requires? That would be great if it's
the case.

Well, I had been considering using Amsoil's XLF next time
since it is API-certified, but I really want to use
the ASL (which is also 5w-30 like XLF), but has a higher
TBN value, meaning more zinc and other good stuff.

You don't think using ASL for 6 or 12 months is going to
hose a catalytic converter, do ya? I just wanna hear
how my engine sounds and feel how the car runs with the
ASL in it. Once I experience that, I'll probably go back to
Pennzoil Platinum, or put in the API-certified Amsoil
XLF.