NASCAR tried to even out the competition in the Nationwide Series on
Wednesday by ordering all teams using Toyota motors to squeeze down
their horsepower before this weekend's race in Indianapolis.

Toyota has won 14 of 21 races this season in the Nationwide Series, and
all but one of them came in a Camry fielded by Joe Gibbs Racing. The
exception was JGR driver Kyle Busch's victory at Charlotte in May in a
car fielded by Braun Racing.

NASCAR ordered all the Toyota motors to use a smaller restrictor that
will knock down 15 horsepower in the motors.

NASCAR recently sent 10 different motors for testing, and found that
David Reutimann's Toyota was the best with an estimated 3 percent
horsepower advantage over the competition. JGR's No. 18 car — which
Busch drove to victory at Chicago right before the motors were tested —
was second.

Roush Fenway Racing's Nos. 16 and 17 Fords were next, followed by JGR's
No. 20 car, which has won nine races with four different drivers this
season.

JGR builds its own motors for its two Nationwide Series cars. The rest
of the Toyota engines in that series and the Craftsman Truck Series
come from Triad Racing Development, a Bill Davis-owned company that
leases engines.

Toyota president Lee White did not immediately return a call for
comment.

Technically, the new guidelines aren't directed solely at Toyota. But
because the automaker is working with a brand new engine and has access
to the latest technology, Toyota teams have gained an advantage over
the manufacturers using older engine models.

If the other manufacturers should reach the stage Toyota is currently
at, they would be subject to the horsepower guidelines NASCAR mandated
Wednesday.

Chevrolet has been pushing to use its new engine in the Nationwide
Series, and many believe that model is on par with the Toyota motors.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:49:49 -0700 (PDT), ransley
<Mark_Ransley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Jul 23, 1:39*pm, "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>> Why doesn't stock car racing go back to requiring stock bodies and
>> eliminate all restrictions on power not related to safety (the body
>> styles would pretty much determine the latter)? *Then if car makers
>> want to win, they'll have to come out with bodies resembling the old
>> Dodge Charger Daytona.
>
>If they released power restrictions the cars would do 220-230 and at
>those speeds the tracks would be dangerous, they just were not
>designed for super high speed. Restriction also make it a competition.

Yeah, because ford and chevy can't keep up.... Same thing happened
when chrysler outperformed them years ago, remember?

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
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"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e0ffdbf8-2223-4acd-9db5-6813a4c0effd@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 23, 1:39 pm, "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
> Why doesn't stock car racing go back to requiring stock bodies and
> eliminate all restrictions on power not related to safety (the body
> styles would pretty much determine the latter)? Then if car makers
> want to win, they'll have to come out with bodies resembling the old
> Dodge Charger Daytona.

If they released power restrictions the cars would do 220-230 and at
those speeds the tracks would be dangerous, they just were not
designed for super high speed. Restriction also make it a competition.

Well suppose they just required domestic "stock" cars instead of purpose
built race cars restricted to 1969 technolgy. I don't think you would find
many Camrys doing 220-230. I'd guess Dodge Chargers would win all the races
(as long as the cars are restricted to domestic sedans).

Ed

There has been crying by one or another "group"about: noses too aerodynamic,
hoods too wide, hood too narrow, back windows too sloped, back windows to
steep, wings to wide or high or deep. Its been a constant cry for
"fairness" and still more crying cause someones engine is too good - not
that the other person's engine is inferior for some reason. So lets
"restrict" the better one so the others can have a reason to not improve.

Does this sound sort of like political crying also? Lets not improve the
poor performers, lets restrict the better ones.

Ron in Ca (and yes, still lot of smoke up here)

Are you talking about the FWD race cars that have been converted to RWD?

"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g67qtv$1mj$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> NASCAR tried to even out the competition in the Nationwide Series on
> Wednesday by ordering all teams using Toyota motors to squeeze down
> their horsepower before this weekend's race in Indianapolis.
>
> Toyota has won 14 of 21 races this season in the Nationwide Series, and
> all but one of them came in a Camry fielded by Joe Gibbs Racing. The
> exception was JGR driver Kyle Busch's victory at Charlotte in May in a
> car fielded by Braun Racing.
>
> NASCAR ordered all the Toyota motors to use a smaller restrictor that
> will knock down 15 horsepower in the motors.
>
> NASCAR recently sent 10 different motors for testing, and found that
> David Reutimann's Toyota was the best with an estimated 3 percent
> horsepower advantage over the competition. JGR's No. 18 car  which
> Busch drove to victory at Chicago right before the motors were tested 
> was second.
>
> Roush Fenway Racing's Nos. 16 and 17 Fords were next, followed by JGR's
> No. 20 car, which has won nine races with four different drivers this
> season.
>
> JGR builds its own motors for its two Nationwide Series cars. The rest
> of the Toyota engines in that series and the Craftsman Truck Series
> come from Triad Racing Development, a Bill Davis-owned company that
> leases engines.
>
> Toyota president Lee White did not immediately return a call for
> comment.
>
> Technically, the new guidelines aren't directed solely at Toyota. But
> because the automaker is working with a brand new engine and has access
> to the latest technology, Toyota teams have gained an advantage over
> the manufacturers using older engine models.
>
> If the other manufacturers should reach the stage Toyota is currently
> at, they would be subject to the horsepower guidelines NASCAR mandated
> Wednesday.
>
> Chevrolet has been pushing to use its new engine in the Nationwide
> Series, and many believe that model is on par with the Toyota motors.
>

"ron" <yabba@doodoo.org> wrote in message
news:qZLhk.17073$89.12404@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> There has been crying by one or another "group"about: noses too
> aerodynamic, hoods too wide, hood too narrow, back windows too sloped,
> back windows to steep, wings to wide or high or deep. Its been a constant
> cry for "fairness" and still more crying cause someones engine is too
> good - not that the other person's engine is inferior for some reason. So
> lets "restrict" the better one so the others can have a reason to not
> improve.
>
> Does this sound sort of like political crying also? Lets not improve the
> poor performers, lets restrict the better ones.

Well except they are restricting the other competitors from improving their
engines. Toyota is the newest boy on the block. Toyota took all the best
ideas from the other competitor's race engines and are getting a little more
power with their design. Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge have all asked to revise
their engines and NASCAR has so far said no. NASCAR has some of the most
restrictive rules of any automobile racing series. Basically you cannot make
any changes without the approval of NASCAR. NASCAR approved Toyota's engine
and now that it turns out to be better than the older engines, they are
trying to make up for their (NASCAR's) mistake. And don't fool yourself, the
Toyota NASCAR engine has absolutely noting to do with any production Toyota
engine (same is true for all the others, with Chevrolets being the most
closely related to a current production engine, and Toyota having the least
relationship to a production engine).

Ed

"Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:99ednTQy6tBIEBrVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@ptd.net...
> Are you talking about the FWD race cars that have been converted to RWD?

No, he is talking about NASCAR Sprint Cup Racing Cars and Nationwide Series
Racing Cars. These are purpose built race cars with purpose built racing
engines. All the manufacturers that participate are restricted to using late
1960's technology (with a few concessions to the 21st century like
electronic ignition). The only thing a NASCAR racing car has in common with
the street car is a name.

Ed

I just got to wonder at why they (NASCAR) approved Toyota's use of modern
technology but won't let the others do the same? I mean if Toyota could use
all the best ideas from all the other 40-50 year old technolgy, why couldn't
the other three?
Ron


"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:XrqdnS6iueKwMhrVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@earthlink.co m...
>
> "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:99ednTQy6tBIEBrVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@ptd.net...
>> Are you talking about the FWD race cars that have been converted to RWD?
>
> No, he is talking about NASCAR Sprint Cup Racing Cars and Nationwide
> Series Racing Cars. These are purpose built race cars with purpose built
> racing engines. All the manufacturers that participate are restricted to
> using late 1960's technology (with a few concessions to the 21st century
> like electronic ignition). The only thing a NASCAR racing car has in
> common with the street car is a name.
>
> Ed
>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:48:47 +0000, badgolferman wrote:

> NASCAR tried to even out the competition in the Nationwide Series on
> Wednesday by ordering all teams using Toyota motors to squeeze down
> their horsepower before this weekend's race in Indianapolis.
>
> Toyota has won 14 of 21 races this season in the Nationwide Series, and
> all but one of them came in a Camry fielded by Joe Gibbs Racing. The
> exception was JGR driver Kyle Busch's victory at Charlotte in May in a
> car fielded by Braun Racing.


This is really funny, since last year they failed miserably and nothing
was done to help them. GO KICK SOME ASS!!!

"ron" <yabba@doodoo.org> wrote in message
news:ZiPhk.14037$cW3.11594@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>I just got to wonder at why they (NASCAR) approved Toyota's use of modern
>technology but won't let the others do the same? I mean if Toyota could
>use all the best ideas from all the other 40-50 year old technolgy, why
>couldn't the other three?
> Ron

Toyota didn't get to use "modern technology." The engine is still a 2V push
rod design, they just learned a little bit more. The biggest difference is
the bore spacing. They spaced the bores out a little more than the others
(the others are still using bore spacing that were fixed by production
engines, even though the engines don't really have anything significant in
common with production engines any more).

The other three manufacturers would certainly update their designs if NASCAR
would let them. NASCAR has to approve any components and they do their very
best to keep any manufacturer from getting an unplanned advantage. Since
Toyota was the newest manufacturer on the block, there was nothing "old" for
NASCAR to restrict Toyota to using. I am sure NASCAR only intended to allow
Toyota to have parity with the other manufacturers (well they may have
intended to give them just a little advantage to make sure they were
competitive initially). Apparently after a year of tuning Toyota was able to
get more out of their engines than NASCAR expected. Of course, like the WWE,
NASCAR is all about the money, so it may be that Toyota is sponsoring a lot
of races at the ISC tracks, and therefore NASCAR (which is for all practical
purposes a division of ISC) looks favorably on Toyota. Many "fans" have
always suspected NASCAR adjusts the rules for certain teams / brands /
drivers. For sure they often revise the rules to keep races from turning
into parades. And then there is the whole use of the yellow flag...

Oh well enough. Like I said before, NASCAR is somewhere between the WWE and
the NBA when it comes to real, fair, unscripted, competition.

Ed