"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:BqJHk.2075$hc1.1703@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> With all the lies that McCain and the Republicans have been using on
> Obama, I don't understand why he doesn't respond with some negative ads of
> his own. Not more ads that simply tell the truth about John McCain, i.e.
> the Keating 5 ads, those are ostensibly negative, but they're not
> personal.
>
> McCain and Palin have a _lot_ more personal stiff to go after than
> something like the whole Ayers schtick.
>
> I saw a good YouTube video regarding the whole "family values" and
> "experience" crap that the neo-cons make noise about whenever Rush and
> Sean tell them to.
>
> "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5tl87rEE4"
>
> Maybe Obama figures that he's gotten this far ahead by talking about real
> issues and that responding would lower himself to McCain's level. But he
> needs to be careful, as the Republicans might come up with lie that works.
> They did it to Kerry with all the Swift Boat lies, and there were enough
> stupid people out there that believed them. Are there enough totally
> clueless people like Mike Hunt, dbu, Mark, Charles, and Scott to turn this
> thing around for McCain?
>
> The other issue Obama needs to worry about is that people are starting to
> feel sorry for McCain's struggling candidacy and may want to vote for an
> underdog.

Watch a McCain rally. McCain is imploding all on his own. Just as long as
the attacks are answered right away, there is no need to sink to McCain's
level.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:30:22 -0700, "Truckdude" <sarah@duh.com> wrote:

>
>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:BqJHk.2075$hc1.1703@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com.. .
>> With all the lies that McCain and the Republicans have been using on
>> Obama, I don't understand why he doesn't respond with some negative ads of
>> his own. Not more ads that simply tell the truth about John McCain, i.e.
>> the Keating 5 ads, those are ostensibly negative, but they're not
>> personal.
>>
>> McCain and Palin have a _lot_ more personal stiff to go after than
>> something like the whole Ayers schtick.
>>
>> I saw a good YouTube video regarding the whole "family values" and
>> "experience" crap that the neo-cons make noise about whenever Rush and
>> Sean tell them to.
>>
>> "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5tl87rEE4"
>>
>> Maybe Obama figures that he's gotten this far ahead by talking about real
>> issues and that responding would lower himself to McCain's level. But he
>> needs to be careful, as the Republicans might come up with lie that works.
>> They did it to Kerry with all the Swift Boat lies, and there were enough
>> stupid people out there that believed them. Are there enough totally
>> clueless people like Mike Hunt, dbu, Mark, Charles, and Scott to turn this
>> thing around for McCain?
>>
>> The other issue Obama needs to worry about is that people are starting to
>> feel sorry for McCain's struggling candidacy and may want to vote for an
>> underdog.
>
>Watch a McCain rally. McCain is imploding all on his own. Just as long as
>the attacks are answered right away, there is no need to sink to McCain's
>level.
>

No answer yet to Ayers....

--

Scott in Florida

Truckdude wrote:

> Watch a McCain rally. McCain is imploding all on his own. Just as long as
> the attacks are answered right away, there is no need to sink to McCain's
> level.

Well Kerry's campaign thought the same thing, and look where that got
him. T. Boone Pickens' Swift Boat lie ad campaign had the necessary
effect. Kerry wasn't so far ahead as Obama, but a change of just 5% of
the voters in each of the swing states would give McCain a victory.

McCain needs to transfer these states to his column:

Florida: Obama 50%, McCain 46%
Ohio: Obama 49%, McCain 46%
Virginia: Obama 51%, McCain 45%
Colorado: Obama 49%, McCain 45%
Either West Virginia (Obama 50%, McCain 42%) or Nevada (Obama 50%,
McCain 46% (he can win in a tie of 269-269).

McCain also needs to hold on to Indiana and North Carolina. He also
needs to win Missouri (currently a tie)

Obama just needs to hold on to Florida or Ohio or Virginia or Colorado
or West Virginia+Nevada, or take Indiana or North Carolina or Missouri.

There's two opposite effects working on the polls. First, the polls are
all down by telephone, and only to landlines. A lot of young people have
no landline, and they heavily lean Obama. Second, the Bradley effect
where people that won't vote for Obama because he's black (they
generally have no other reason) will say they're voting for him but don't.

"Scott in Florida" <MoveOn@outa.here> wrote in message
news:49vue4tbifa0drpdlsmad9imuk1b12tg25@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:30:22 -0700, "Truckdude" <sarah@duh.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>news:BqJHk.2075$hc1.1703@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com. ..
>>> With all the lies that McCain and the Republicans have been using on
>>> Obama, I don't understand why he doesn't respond with some negative ads
>>> of
>>> his own. Not more ads that simply tell the truth about John McCain, i.e.
>>> the Keating 5 ads, those are ostensibly negative, but they're not
>>> personal.
>>>
>>> McCain and Palin have a _lot_ more personal stiff to go after than
>>> something like the whole Ayers schtick.
>>>
>>> I saw a good YouTube video regarding the whole "family values" and
>>> "experience" crap that the neo-cons make noise about whenever Rush and
>>> Sean tell them to.
>>>
>>> "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5tl87rEE4"
>>>
>>> Maybe Obama figures that he's gotten this far ahead by talking about
>>> real
>>> issues and that responding would lower himself to McCain's level. But he
>>> needs to be careful, as the Republicans might come up with lie that
>>> works.
>>> They did it to Kerry with all the Swift Boat lies, and there were enough
>>> stupid people out there that believed them. Are there enough totally
>>> clueless people like Mike Hunt, dbu, Mark, Charles, and Scott to turn
>>> this
>>> thing around for McCain?
>>>
>>> The other issue Obama needs to worry about is that people are starting
>>> to
>>> feel sorry for McCain's struggling candidacy and may want to vote for an
>>> underdog.
>>
>>Watch a McCain rally. McCain is imploding all on his own. Just as long
>>as
>>the attacks are answered right away, there is no need to sink to McCain's
>>level.
>>
>
> No answer yet to Ayers....
>
> --
>
> Scott in Florida

I suggest they keep on that. And they need to keep saying that they want to
know more. Over and over and over.

There's are third and fourth effects -

People who always tell annoying pollsters the opposite of what they
intend to do

People who are afraid to diss Obama to *anyone* because they fear
reprisals by the Dim political machine, the Radical Left and other
unsavory characters supporting BHO.



On Oct 10, 12:26*pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> There's two opposite effects working on the polls. First, the polls are
> all down by telephone, and only to landlines. A lot of young people have
> no landline, and they heavily lean Obama. Second, the Bradley effect
> where people that won't vote for Obama because he's black (they
> generally have no other reason) will say they're voting for him but don't..

In article <49vue4tbifa0drpdlsmad9imuk1b12tg25@4ax.com>,
Scott in Florida <MoveOn@outa.here> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:30:22 -0700, "Truckdude" <sarah@duh.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:BqJHk.2075$hc1.1703@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com.. .
> >> With all the lies that McCain and the Republicans have been using on
> >> Obama, I don't understand why he doesn't respond with some negative ads of
> >> his own. Not more ads that simply tell the truth about John McCain, i.e.
> >> the Keating 5 ads, those are ostensibly negative, but they're not
> >> personal.
> >>
> >> McCain and Palin have a _lot_ more personal stiff to go after than
> >> something like the whole Ayers schtick.
> >>
> >> I saw a good YouTube video regarding the whole "family values" and
> >> "experience" crap that the neo-cons make noise about whenever Rush and
> >> Sean tell them to.
> >>
> >> "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg5tl87rEE4"
> >>
> >> Maybe Obama figures that he's gotten this far ahead by talking about real
> >> issues and that responding would lower himself to McCain's level. But he
> >> needs to be careful, as the Republicans might come up with lie that works.
> >> They did it to Kerry with all the Swift Boat lies, and there were enough
> >> stupid people out there that believed them. Are there enough totally
> >> clueless people like Mike Hunt, dbu, Mark, Charles, and Scott to turn this
> >> thing around for McCain?
> >>
> >> The other issue Obama needs to worry about is that people are starting to
> >> feel sorry for McCain's struggling candidacy and may want to vote for an
> >> underdog.
> >
> >Watch a McCain rally. McCain is imploding all on his own. Just as long as
> >the attacks are answered right away, there is no need to sink to McCain's
> >level.
> >
>
> No answer yet to Ayers....

Obama will have an answer for everything when he buys 30 minutes of
prime time on all the TV networks one week from election. They have
money to burn and burn they must because it will become evidence if they
don't get rid of it soon.
--

Truckdude wrote:

> I suggest they keep on that. And they need to keep saying that they want to
> know more. Over and over and over.

You laugh, but it's their only hope. McCain can't win if he talks about
the economy or the wars because he bears so much responsibility for
both. He's got to look for side issues, and hope to find one that works.
Sure there's a risk that the ads will backfire, but what choice do they
have at this point?

The attack ads are not directed at you and me, they're directed at white
people that like Obama because of his policies, his judgment, his
steadiness, and his knowledge, but are wavering about voting for a black
guy with an Arab sounding name.

Have you been to Virginia, Florida, or North Carolina lately? Population
changes are moving them from red to blue as the old southerners die off
and their children are becoming more educated, and as more non-racists
move into those states but it's a slow process and you still have a lot
of mildly racist people, that don't see Obama as a "typical black," but
that are still hesitant to vote for him. When I was young, blacks
cleaned houses and mowed lawns and their kids stole your lunch money.
One of my mom's friends said that she wouldn't vote for Obama because
she was once mugged by black guy. One of my sister-in-laws won't vote
for Obama because she was mugged on a bus in San Francisco by a black
guy. There really are people that think this way, though not a lot will
admit it.

McCain lost to W when W went dirty with the out-of-wedlock child
accusations which were just as ridiculous as W's Swift Boat lies. But
there are always some people dumb enough to believe stuff like that. If
you doubt that, you have to look no further than this newsgroup, and
people like dbu, Mark, Scott, Mike Hunt, Charles, and Jeff. They
represent the worst of America, but don't kid yourself into thinking
that there's not a lot more people like that out there.

Personally, I'm not voting for McCain because he's white, and a white
guy blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:01:18 -0700, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

>>SNIP<<

>One of my mom's friends said that she wouldn't vote for Obama because
>she was once mugged by black guy. One of my sister-in-laws won't vote
>for Obama because she was mugged on a bus in San Francisco by a black
>guy. There really are people that think this way, though not a lot will
>admit it.
>
>>SNIP<<
>
>Personally, I'm not voting for McCain because he's white, and a white
>guy blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

Hi Steven,

Have you noticed that when folks say the sort of stuff
represented in the top paragraph they never seem to say
"I'll never vote for a man because..." It's always the race
that those folks latch on to.

(By the way, let's remember that McVeigh was a Christian as
well.)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:

> Hi Steven,
>
> Have you noticed that when folks say the sort of stuff
> represented in the top paragraph they never seem to say
> "I'll never vote for a man because..." It's always the race
> that those folks latch on to.

Well there is some hope, as my mom's friend (in Florida) finally did say
that Sarah Palin was the final straw, and that she would vote for Obama.
She had been a Hillary supporter, and maybe it was just anger at Hillary
losing that turned her against Obama earlier. Palin could turn the most
angry Hillary supporter away from McCain.

Most people are probably mildly racist, though it does seem to be
improving from generation to generation. I'll never forget being in
China and visiting my girlfriend's relatives in Guangzhou. Her cousin
who was about 18 asked me "do you like black people?" I told him that
there are people of all races that I like and people of all races that I
dislike. He told me that he didn't like black people. I found this
puzzling since in all the time I was in China I hadn't seen a single
black person, though there had been an incident in Beijing where some
black exchange students were barred from using the public swimming pool.
I asked him "how many black people have you met?" Of course the answer
was "I've never met one."

In article <ffMHk.2092$hc1.1271@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Kenneth wrote:
>
> > Hi Steven,
> >
> > Have you noticed that when folks say the sort of stuff
> > represented in the top paragraph they never seem to say
> > "I'll never vote for a man because..." It's always the race
> > that those folks latch on to.
>
> Well there is some hope, as my mom's friend (in Florida) finally did say
> that Sarah Palin was the final straw, and that she would vote for Obama.
> She had been a Hillary supporter, and maybe it was just anger at Hillary
> losing that turned her against Obama earlier. Palin could turn the most
> angry Hillary supporter away from McCain.
>
> Most people are probably mildly racist, though it does seem to be
> improving from generation to generation. I'll never forget being in
> China and visiting my girlfriend's relatives in Guangzhou. Her cousin
> who was about 18 asked me "do you like black people?" I told him that
> there are people of all races that I like and people of all races that I
> dislike. He told me that he didn't like black people. I found this
> puzzling since in all the time I was in China I hadn't seen a single
> black person, though there had been an incident in Beijing where some
> black exchange students were barred from using the public swimming pool.
> I asked him "how many black people have you met?" Of course the answer
> was "I've never met one."

Well, what was it about Sara Palin then, she wasn't ugly enough?
--