I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
the circuits in question. Every resource I have consulted, including
the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. I find this
to be a bunch of BS. On this particular truck, I found wires melted
together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
controller.

This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...iagram_500.jpg

I have seen what this does to a wiring harness. Has anyone else in
this group wired a trailer brake controller differently than this? I
ask in this group because I feel that the people here know about what
they are talking.
If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't even bother to ask anywhere.

This seems like bullshit to my un-ASE-certified, non-union, young,
piece-of-shit, worthless, know-nothing, ass.
Obviously, the fleet of beaters (to borrow an expression) that I keep
running for several people says nothing about my ability. I
obviously don't deserve any attention at all , especially when I am
trying to share whatever my stupid moron ass has learned.
Personally, I like to jump into new things with no prior knowledge at
all. Especially when I know someone that has experience... I just
like to say "fuck you, you don't know anything" LOL!

Oh and just for the record, I am a minority as well. You will never
guess which one, but I am. *LOL*

"Nza" <thenza@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4c0a56ae-4e6b-48b4-9c2d-690dd0e511e1@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
> one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
> poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
> the circuits in question. Every resource I have consulted, including
> the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
> me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. I find this
> to be a bunch of BS. On this particular truck, I found wires melted
> together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
> controller.
>
> This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
> http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...iagram_500.jpg
>
> I have seen what this does to a wiring harness. Has anyone else in
> this group wired a trailer brake controller differently than this? I
> ask in this group because I feel that the people here know about what
> they are talking.
> If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't even bother to ask anywhere.
>
> This seems like bullshit to my un-ASE-certified, non-union, young,
> piece-of-shit, worthless, know-nothing, ass.
> Obviously, the fleet of beaters (to borrow an expression) that I keep
> running for several people says nothing about my ability. I
> obviously don't deserve any attention at all , especially when I am
> trying to share whatever my stupid moron ass has learned.
> Personally, I like to jump into new things with no prior knowledge at
> all. Especially when I know someone that has experience... I just
> like to say "fuck you, you don't know anything" LOL!
>
> Oh and just for the record, I am a minority as well. You will never
> guess which one, but I am. *LOL*
>

NZA = New Zealand Aborigone?

If the wires at the brake light switch are melted together, chances are, the
controller was drawing too much. Try installing a relay in the stop light
circuit between where the red wire taps into the brake switch circuit and
the controller. The current from the brake switch would be the "control" or
"trigger" circuit, and power from another fused circuit would feed the red
wire that leads to the controller.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Nza wrote:
> I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
> one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
> poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
> the circuits in question. Every resource I have consulted, including
> the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
> me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. I find this
> to be a bunch of BS. On this particular truck, I found wires melted
> together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
> controller.

The signal from the brake light switch is just a control signal, the
high current is only on the +12 and ground lines. If something melted,
then perhaps the old brake controller was wired incorrectly, since the
current through that line should have been quite low. Or perhaps other
accessories were wired into the brake lights, i.e. too many extra
trailer lights, back up alarms, higher wattage brake light bulbs, etc.

You could always add a relay to the brake switch signal. Why don't you
wire it as indicated and measure the current draw through that wire. If
it's more than a few hundred mA, then add a relay to the circuit. If
it's less, then don't add the relay as you'll just be adding another
point of failure for no reason.

Also measure the total current through the switch with all the
accessories and lights that run off of it. If it's more than a few ampa,
then add a relay to the entire circuit; everything that is run off the
switch.

Get a sealed automotive relay, with an internal diode across the coil
terminals. Don't cheap out with a fog light relay (I've had two of the
ones supplied with PIAA lights fail).

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), Nza <thenza@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
>one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
>poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
>the circuits in question. Every resource I have consulted, including
>the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
>me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. I find this
>to be a bunch of BS. On this particular truck, I found wires melted
>together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
>controller.
>
>This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
>http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...iagram_500.jpg
>
I've never used a controller wired that way. I suppose it would work
but you wouldn't be able to modulate the trailer braking, it would
either be on or off. All of the controllers I've had any experience
with are tapped into the brake line and vary the trailer brake
solenoid voltage according to the brake line pressure. This allows
the trailer brakes to be modulated along with the towing vehicle's
brakes giving better control of the trailer during hard braking.

This type of controller really should be installed by a qualified
mechanic who knows braking systems. There are requirements that the
average shade-tree mechanic wouldn't be aware of.

>I have seen what this does to a wiring harness. Has anyone else in
>this group wired a trailer brake controller differently than this? I
>ask in this group because I feel that the people here know about what
>they are talking.
>If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't even bother to ask anywhere.
>
>This seems like bullshit to my un-ASE-certified, non-union, young,
>piece-of-shit, worthless, know-nothing, ass.
>Obviously, the fleet of beaters (to borrow an expression) that I keep
>running for several people says nothing about my ability. I
>obviously don't deserve any attention at all , especially when I am
>trying to share whatever my stupid moron ass has learned.
>Personally, I like to jump into new things with no prior knowledge at
>all. Especially when I know someone that has experience... I just
>like to say "fuck you, you don't know anything" LOL!
>
>Oh and just for the record, I am a minority as well. You will never
>guess which one, but I am. *LOL*

Sounds like you have a self-esteem problem. Either too much or not
enough, can't tell which.

As for being a minority, so what? What has that to do with the price
of rice in San Francisco? After all, the vast majority of us are
members of a minority.

Jack j

On Dec 4, 11:12*am, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....@windstream.net>
wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), Nza <the...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
> >one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
> >poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
> >the circuits in question. * Every resource I have consulted, including
> >the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
> >me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. * *I find this
> >to be a bunch of BS. * On this particular truck, I found wires melted
> >together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
> >controller.
>
> >This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
> >http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr.../brake_control...
>
> I've never used a controller wired that way. *I suppose it would work
> but you wouldn't be able to modulate the trailer braking, it would
> either be on or off. *All of the controllers I've had any experience
> with are tapped into the brake line and vary the trailer brake
> solenoid voltage according to the brake line pressure. *This allows
> the trailer brakes to be modulated along with the towing vehicle's
> brakes giving better control of the trailer during hard braking.
>
> This type of controller really should be installed by a qualified
> mechanic who knows braking systems. *There are requirements that the
> average shade-tree mechanic wouldn't be aware of.

I'm no 'shade-tree' mechanic, just because I have no piece of paper
that says I have been doing this since I was 18 to earn bread-and-
butter.. Believe me, if I sucked at it, I would have called it quits
LONGGGGGGGG ago. Not to mention there would be a long list of
European car owners that wanted to snuff me out.

There's nobody in this town that I would have taken the truck to that
would have been ABLE to fix the wiring harness of the truck. What
'requirements' are you talking about for knowledge of braking
systems?? Sounds like the controller you are describing is of the
progressive type, and not the on-off type that the owner bought for
this truck. Incidentally, I am replacing the unit that was in the
truck with the same exact unit. There is one of these on-off types
in my brother's dodge dually that works fine. Yeah, it's not the
'ideal' setup, but it works. You have to adjust the controller based
upon the load you are carrying. There is also a rheostat for
controlling delay before the brakes apply. Many many many trucks
have this setup. It just turned out to be BS in this truck, perhaps
because of other wiring faults to begin with.



> Sounds like you have a self-esteem problem. *Either too much or not
> enough, can't tell which.

it depends on the day!
seriously though, i have always been put down for not having the
appropriate piece of paper. Nevermind all the people's nuts I rescue
from the flames. My own grandfather thinks I didn't go to college,
even though I did and have a degree. AAHAHAH It doesn't stop me
from accomplishing what I need to accomplish.

> As for being a minority, so what? *What has that to do with the price
> of rice in San Francisco? *After all, the vast majority of us are
> members of a minority.

Exactly my point, sir. I like your contradiction though.

On Dec 4, 1:25*am, "Ray O" <rokig...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com>
wrote:

> NZA = New Zealand Aborigone?

that's pretty creative... lol!

>
> If the wires at the brake light switch are melted together, chances are, the
> controller was drawing too much. *Try installing a relay in the stop light
> circuit between where the red wire taps into the brake switch circuit and
> the controller. *The current from the brake switch would be the "control" or
> "trigger" circuit, and power from another fused circuit would feed the red
> wire that leads to the controller.


Someone put two 30A thermal breakers in series for the main circuit
(correct me if I'm wrong, but that is pointless because it will still
only take 30 amps to blow the first breaker in the series). There
is also another 30A thermal breaker which has nothing connected to
it. I assume this is the one that was intended for the brake switch
circuit.

I thought about putting a relay in there like you said.. it just seems
redundant. however, if it will keep the smoke in the wires, it might
be the answer.

On Dec 4, 8:04*am, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:

> The signal from the brake light switch is just a control signal, the
> high current is only on the +12 and ground lines. If something melted,
> then perhaps the old brake controller was wired incorrectly, since the
> current through that line should have been quite low. Or perhaps other
> accessories were wired into the brake lights, i.e. too many extra
> trailer lights, back up alarms, higher wattage brake light bulbs, etc.

i think maybe the bypassed breaker *might* have been a partial cause
of the problem initially.
I have to say that dodge used way way too small gauge wiring for the
lighting circuits. The roof position indicators... haha... let's
just say there was a LOT of resistance there... they all five have new
wires and a DEFINITE ground now. Dodge has these junction
connectors under the dash... the fused 12ga wire goes to a junction
that has 6 wires of the same gauge coming out of it to provide power
to what seems like every damned light on the truck. I had to run an
EXTRA one to the roof position lights because someone patched into the
headlight switch to give the roof lights power.

> You could always add a relay to the brake switch signal. Why don't you
> wire it as indicated and measure the current draw through that wire. *If
> it's more than a few hundred mA, then add a relay to the circuit. If
> it's less, then don't add the relay as you'll just be adding another
> point of failure for no reason.

I will do this in the next couple of days and post the results.
Hopefully, wired 'correctly' it will not draw more than a few hundo
mA, like you said.

> Also measure the total current through the switch with all the
> accessories and lights that run off of it. If it's more than a few ampa,
> then add a relay to the entire circuit; everything that is run off the
> switch.

Hmm. That is even more interesting. Hadn't even considered that,
but sounds reasonable.

>
> Get a sealed automotive relay, with an internal diode across the coil
> terminals. Don't cheap out with a fog light relay (I've had two of the
> ones supplied with PIAA lights fail).

What brand/type of relay would suffice? I have a shitpot full of
Bosch 12V30A relays that I scavenged from BMW's at the junkyard, but I
don't think they have a diode in them. I'll have to look more
closely at them.
Can you recommend one for me off the top of your head?

And I have to say it... this is what I really like about this group.
I have been a jerk to you, I'm certain (whom haven't I been a jerk
to? LOL!), but you still responded to my question. Thank you!

This is why I didn't go to the alt.trailer.brake.controller.wiring
group to begin with...

"Nza" <thenza@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9a22d3a7-32b9-4e80-bcf5-155ff0ba231d@v13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 1:25 am, "Ray O" <rokig...@NOSPAMtristarassociates.com>
wrote:

> NZA = New Zealand Aborigone?

that's pretty creative... lol!

******
That was the only one I could come up with...

>
> If the wires at the brake light switch are melted together, chances are,
> the
> controller was drawing too much. Try installing a relay in the stop light
> circuit between where the red wire taps into the brake switch circuit and
> the controller. The current from the brake switch would be the "control"
> or
> "trigger" circuit, and power from another fused circuit would feed the red
> wire that leads to the controller.


Someone put two 30A thermal breakers in series for the main circuit
(correct me if I'm wrong, but that is pointless because it will still
only take 30 amps to blow the first breaker in the series). There
is also another 30A thermal breaker which has nothing connected to
it. I assume this is the one that was intended for the brake switch
circuit.
***********
Yup, putting thermal breakers in series is pointless. Whoever wired up the
system needs to go back to school.
***********

I thought about putting a relay in there like you said.. it just seems
redundant. however, if it will keep the smoke in the wires, it might
be the answer.

*********
I would imagine that the red signal wire triggers a relay inside the
controller, but it apparently draws a lot so another relay might do the
trick.

Wiring is one of those areas where Bruce knows a lot more than me so if he
chimes in on this thread, go with his advice.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:38:29 -0800 (PST), Nza <thenza@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Dec 4, 11:12*am, Retired VIP <jackj.extradots....@windstream.net>
>wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), Nza <the...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
>> >one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
>> >poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
>> >the circuits in question. * Every resource I have consulted, including
>> >the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
>> >me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. * *I find this
>> >to be a bunch of BS. * On this particular truck, I found wires melted
>> >together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
>> >controller.
>>
>> >This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
>> >http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr.../brake_control...
>>
>> I've never used a controller wired that way. *I suppose it would work
>> but you wouldn't be able to modulate the trailer braking, it would
>> either be on or off. *All of the controllers I've had any experience
>> with are tapped into the brake line and vary the trailer brake
>> solenoid voltage according to the brake line pressure. *This allows
>> the trailer brakes to be modulated along with the towing vehicle's
>> brakes giving better control of the trailer during hard braking.
>>
>> This type of controller really should be installed by a qualified
>> mechanic who knows braking systems. *There are requirements that the
>> average shade-tree mechanic wouldn't be aware of.
>
>I'm no 'shade-tree' mechanic, just because I have no piece of paper
>that says I have been doing this since I was 18 to earn bread-and-
>butter.. Believe me, if I sucked at it, I would have called it quits
>LONGGGGGGGG ago. Not to mention there would be a long list of
>European car owners that wanted to snuff me out.
>
>There's nobody in this town that I would have taken the truck to that
>would have been ABLE to fix the wiring harness of the truck. What
>'requirements' are you talking about for knowledge of braking
>systems?? Sounds like the controller you are describing is of the
>progressive type, and not the on-off type that the owner bought for
>this truck. Incidentally, I am replacing the unit that was in the
>truck with the same exact unit. There is one of these on-off types
>in my brother's dodge dually that works fine. Yeah, it's not the
>'ideal' setup, but it works. You have to adjust the controller based
>upon the load you are carrying. There is also a rheostat for
>controlling delay before the brakes apply. Many many many trucks
>have this setup. It just turned out to be BS in this truck, perhaps
>because of other wiring faults to begin with.
>
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that YOU were a shade-tree mechanic
just that this type if brake controler shouldn't be installed by one.
The problem with this system is that it is incompatable with Anti-lock
systems or traction control system. It is usually tapped into the
line going to the rear brakes and does require some extra fluid be
displaced by the master cyclinder in order to operate the trailer
controler's rheostat. Some system won't be able to supply the extra
fluid and still maintain braking balance between the front and back.
Other system might detect a fault because of the extra fluid flow.

I'm not an expert on brakes but I do know that I'm not qualified to
install one of these controlers.
>
>
>> Sounds like you have a self-esteem problem. *Either too much or not
>> enough, can't tell which.
>
>it depends on the day!
>seriously though, i have always been put down for not having the
>appropriate piece of paper. Nevermind all the people's nuts I rescue
>from the flames. My own grandfather thinks I didn't go to college,
>even though I did and have a degree. AAHAHAH It doesn't stop me
>from accomplishing what I need to accomplish.

Don't pay any attention to folks who try to put you down. It has been
my experence that the vast majority of of people who put others down
don't know as much as they think they know. "Sticks and stones may
break my bones but names will never hurt me!" From my mother about 60
years ago.
>
>> As for being a minority, so what? *What has that to do with the price
>> of rice in San Francisco? *After all, the vast majority of us are
>> members of a minority.
>
>Exactly my point, sir. I like your contradiction though.
>
>

I was gonna stay away from this one, mostly because I'm having trouble
reading your description. Sorry about that.

It is my humble opinion that the controller itself might not be the problem,
but it could be. I think the real problem is the faulty installation that
you are trying to fix.

I do not accept the idea that the controller maker will tell you to connect
to wires that are too small to carry the load, but I readily accept that the
wires are inadequate because some other dolt selected the wrong size. You
describe melted wires under the dash, this tells me that the installation
you are fixing is seriously flawed. There are other posters in this
discussion that say your controller is not compatible with ABS, you did not
say which truck you have, and this might give you ABS to deal with.

I have no clue what your skills are, but you don't seem too sure of
yourself. I suggest that the person that first installed the brake
controller screwed it up, and you should avoid blaming the truck or the
controller for that. All you can do now is fix the mess and move on. Get a
controller that works with your truck, vis a vis ABS and traction control,
and a spool of new wire and fix the shit that is burned up before you
install the new controller.

Typically, a controller will have a relay inside that takes a trigger from
the brake light switch. This trigger is not an appreciable load, so the
wires should not be melted _unless_ something else was done wrong.

There are far too many variables to help you now ...




"Nza" <thenza@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4c0a56ae-4e6b-48b4-9c2d-690dd0e511e1@w35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>I am wiring a new trailer brake controller into a truck that has had
> one for a long time, but has burnt the wiring harness because of
> poorly wired accessories, not to mention inadequate gauge wiring to
> the circuits in question. Every resource I have consulted, including
> the instructions for the piece of shit trailer brake controller tells
> me to patch into the brake light switch of the truck. I find this
> to be a bunch of BS. On this particular truck, I found wires melted
> together at the brake light switch... probably due to the
> controller.
>
> This is the popular wiring of trailer brake controllers:
> http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/gr...iagram_500.jpg
>
> I have seen what this does to a wiring harness. Has anyone else in
> this group wired a trailer brake controller differently than this? I
> ask in this group because I feel that the people here know about what
> they are talking.
> If I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't even bother to ask anywhere.
>
> This seems like bullshit to my un-ASE-certified, non-union, young,
> piece-of-shit, worthless, know-nothing, ass.
> Obviously, the fleet of beaters (to borrow an expression) that I keep
> running for several people says nothing about my ability. I
> obviously don't deserve any attention at all , especially when I am
> trying to share whatever my stupid moron ass has learned.
> Personally, I like to jump into new things with no prior knowledge at
> all. Especially when I know someone that has experience... I just
> like to say "fuck you, you don't know anything" LOL!
>
> Oh and just for the record, I am a minority as well. You will never
> guess which one, but I am. *LOL*
>