Something cogent from someone you love to hate hate. Enjoy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html

Saving the Big 3 for You and Me

Friends,

I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement.
It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold
ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have
had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work
in something that won't break down:

My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and
comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good
grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was
that a sweet ride!

When it would start.

More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died.
Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad
drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't
start, for no reason at all.

A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in
northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next
day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake
warning light came on. And on and on.

You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about
these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city.
But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods
depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense
of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it
runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the
current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical.

And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more
responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile
atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.

Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.

Article continues:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html

edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:

> Something cogent from someone you love to hate hate. Enjoy.
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>
> Saving the Big 3 for You and Me
>
> Friends,
>
> I drive an American car. It's a Chrysler. That's not an endorsement.
> It's more like a cry for pity. And now for a decades-old story, retold
> ad infinitum by tens of millions of Americans, a third of whom have
> had to desert their country to simply find a damn way to get to work
> in something that won't break down:
>
> My Chrysler is four years old. I bought it because of its smooth and
> comfortable ride. Daimler-Benz owned the company then and had the good
> grace to place the Chrysler chassis on a Mercedes axle and, man, was
> that a sweet ride!
>
> When it would start.
>
> More than a dozen times in these years, the car has simply died.
> Batteries have been replaced, but that wasn't the problem. My dad
> drives the same model. His car has died many times, too. Just won't
> start, for no reason at all.
>
> A few weeks ago, I took my Chrysler in to the Chrysler dealer here in
> northern Michigan -- and the latest fixes cost me $1,400. The next
> day, the vehicle wouldn't start. When I got it going, the brake
> warning light came on. And on and on.
>
> You might assume from this that I couldn't give a rat's ass about
> these miserably inept crapmobile makers down the road in Detroit city.
> But I do care. I care about the millions whose lives and livelihoods
> depend on these car companies. I care about the security and defense
> of this country because the world is running out of oil -- and when it
> runs out, the calamity and collapse that will take place will make the
> current recession/depression look like a Tommy Tune musical.
>
> And I care about what happens with the Big 3 because they are more
> responsible than almost anyone for the destruction of our fragile
> atmosphere and the daily melting of our polar ice caps.
>
> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>
> Article continues:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html

Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:10:17 -0800, edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:

> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>
> Article continues:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html

Ugh. This is the last person I listen to. I even listen to Al Franken
before him. Just before him. Next to last. They're both a couple of
buffoons...

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

>> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
>> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
>> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
>> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
>> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>>
>> Article continues:
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>
> Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
> production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
> into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
> wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
> companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
> hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.

If Detriot made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.

They obviously miss the mark, and they've had plenty of cars that could
have hit the target. GM had the Cavalier, the Cobalt, the Vega, the Monte
Carlo (although for some reason Montes ran better than most. I even had
one myself...beater, but it worked!) The problem was it was too hit or
miss. Some cars would run for hundreds of thousands of miles, and others
would start on their road to the boneyard at 50,000 miles. Not enough
consistency. Will this one be a high-miler or a dud?

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>
> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> > edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
> >> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
> >> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
> >> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
> >> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
> >>
> >> Article continues:
> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
> >
> > Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
> > production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
> > into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
> > wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
> > companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
> > hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>
> If Detroit made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.

Why haven't they made cars that people have wanted? More importantly,
why have those American CEOs been more out of touch with American car
buyers than foreigner auto CEOs have been?

On Dec 6, 9:52 pm, "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> > > edspyhil...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > >> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
> > >> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
> > >> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
> > >> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
> > >> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>
> > >> Article continues:
> > >>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae...big-3-for-you_...
>
> > > Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
> > > production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
> > > into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
> > > wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
> > > companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
> > > hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>
> > If Detroit made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.
>
> Why haven't they made cars that people have wanted? More importantly,
> why have those American CEOs been more out of touch with American car
> buyers than foreigner auto CEOs have been?

And the amazing part of the situation is that Detroit owns European
car companies and continues to offer technology only over there. The
technology never filters back to the US. Like the cleaner diesels.

"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:2edbc705-1a03-4b66-8f6e-49803222f191@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>
>> > edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
>> >> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
>> >> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
>> >> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
>> >> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>> >>
>> >> Article continues:
>> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>> >
>> > Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
>> > production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
>> > into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
>> > wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
>> > companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
>> > hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>>
>> If Detroit made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.
>
> Why haven't they made cars that people have wanted? More importantly,
> why have those American CEOs been more out of touch with American car
> buyers than foreigner auto CEOs have been?

Those are the questions. Maybe same basic mindset as GWB?? As in: "Stay the
course" - no matter if it's not working?

Cathy


>

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@e86.GTS> wrote in message
newsan.2008.12.06.00.10.53.656732@e86.GTS...
> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
>>> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
>>> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
>>> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
>>> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
>>> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>>>
>>> Article continues:
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>>
>> Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
>> production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
>> into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
>> wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
>> companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
>> hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>
> If Detriot made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.

No kidding. They didn't read the writing on the wall in the 70's, then began
to spiff up their act later on... mid-80's, maybe?? Then went off track
again: same old, same old - blind to the writing, which most others seemed
to be able to see & read! Therefore I don't feel sorry for them (the
companies & their top guns, not generally the individuals working for them),
but OTOH don't want their big-time screw-ups to affect the economy on the
whole; so... problem.

Cathy


>
> They obviously miss the mark, and they've had plenty of cars that could
> have hit the target. GM had the Cavalier, the Cobalt, the Vega, the Monte
> Carlo (although for some reason Montes ran better than most. I even had
> one myself...beater, but it worked!) The problem was it was too hit or
> miss. Some cars would run for hundreds of thousands of miles, and others
> would start on their road to the boneyard at 50,000 miles. Not enough
> consistency. Will this one be a high-miler or a dud?
>
>
>

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:16:21 -0500, "Cathy F."
<clfr@adelphiadotdeedot.net> wrote:

>
>"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:2edbc705-1a03-4b66-8f6e-49803222f191@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>>
>>> > edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these companies
>>> >> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from the
>>> >> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network can
>>> >> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
>>> >> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>>> >>
>>> >> Article continues:
>>> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>>> >
>>> > Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
>>> > production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn Detroit
>>> > into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
>>> > wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
>>> > companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
>>> > hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>>>
>>> If Detroit made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.
>>
>> Why haven't they made cars that people have wanted? More importantly,
>> why have those American CEOs been more out of touch with American car
>> buyers than foreigner auto CEOs have been?
>
>Those are the questions. Maybe same basic mindset as GWB?? As in: "Stay the
>course" - no matter if it's not working?

What 'course' has Bush taken that did not work?


>
>Cathy
>
>
>>
>
--

Scott in Florida

"Scott in Florida" <MoveOn@outa.here> wrote in message
news:usaoj4lqnemh90glot69ckdndqmmko8al5@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:16:21 -0500, "Cathy F."
> <clfr@adelphiadotdeedot.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>news:2edbc705-1a03-4b66-8f6e-49803222f191@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:26:16 -0800, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > edspyhill01@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Congress must save the industrial infrastructure that these
>>>> >> companies
>>>> >> control and the jobs they create. And it must save the world from
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> internal combustion engine. This great, vast manufacturing network
>>>> >> can
>>>> >> redeem itself by building mass transit and electric/hybrid cars, and
>>>> >> the kind of transportation we need for the 21st century.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Article continues:
>>>> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michae..._b_147970.html
>>>> >
>>>> > Any rescue of Detroit first has to deal with cutting costs, improving
>>>> > production, and creating cars that sell, and any plans to turn
>>>> > Detroit
>>>> > into a producer of mass transit and hybrid vehicles simply have to
>>>> > wait until the companies are viable again. It's said that the
>>>> > companies have to shave over $2,000 in costs from each vehicle, but a
>>>> > hybrid power train probably adds at least that much to the cost.
>>>>
>>>> If Detroit made cars people wanted, they wouldn't be in this mess.
>>>
>>> Why haven't they made cars that people have wanted? More importantly,
>>> why have those American CEOs been more out of touch with American car
>>> buyers than foreigner auto CEOs have been?
>>
>>Those are the questions. Maybe same basic mindset as GWB?? As in: "Stay
>>the
>>course" - no matter if it's not working?
>
> What 'course' has Bush taken that did not work?


Afghanistan.