The facts are as follows:

1. Amsoil products, other than the XL-7500 line, cannot
be API certified because the level of ZDDP exceeds
the API limits which results in too much phosphorus.
This is not in dispute, Amsoil stated this. See:

"groups.google.com/groups?q=zdp+amsoil&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1&ic=1&sel m=3B02A3A8.185B25C7%40pinn.net"

From: "Selbrede, Byron" <byr...@amsoil.com>
To: "'no...@pinn.net'" <n...@pinn.net>
Subject: RE: Technical Service Contact Form
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:18:15 -0500

"Actually it's the amount of phosphorus that is regulated-- but
that is directly related to the amount of zinc that can be used as they
are combined as zinc dithio phosphate (ZDP). This is only regulated in 2
viscosity grades, 5W30 and 10W30. Other than the Series 7500, AMSOIL
lubes all contain more ZDP than can be used in an API licensed oil. For
examples of our ZDP levels refer to data sheets for AMO, ARO, AMF or AMV."

2. The API limit on the amount of ZDDP was put in place
because the phosphorus in the ZDDP shortens the life
of the catalytic converter; the more ZDDP the shorter
the life of the catalytic converter.

"http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/additive.htm"
"http://www.mixoil.com/ge_info.htm" scroll down to "Antiwear-EP"

The only site I found that argued that this was not true was an
Amsoil dealer's site (not the corporate Amsoil site).

3. There are many synthetic oils, including one from Amsoil, that meet
the strict API certification requirements. See:

4. The high level of ZDDP in the Amsoil non-API certified
oil (and some other non-certified oils) provides better
wear protection than the API certified oils with the
lower level of ZDDP. So it would make sense to use these
non-API certified oils in vehicles without catalytic
converters, in fact this is recommended. Read:

"http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html"

which talks about how motorcycles are better off using an
oil with a higher level of phosphorus than is allowable in
the API certified oils.

5. The use of an oil that does not meet the API standards,
could cause a manufacturer to deny warranty coverage on
items affected by the oil. Amsoil stated:

"Major auto manufacturers and regulatory agencies have
determined that warranties must cover all equipment
failures unless they were directly caused by the
aftermarket product in question or by the maintenance
practice in question."

"http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&safe=off&th=c983d81f1e083642,14..."

Logically, since using an oil with too high a level of
phosphorus is a maintenance practice and product that
can directly cause a catalytic converter's life to be
shortened, this qualifies as something that a manufacturer
could deny warranty coverage over.

Of course by the time the catalytic converter fails, even
with a high ZDDP oil, it will most likely be out of
warranty anyway. Does Amsoil cover premature failure of
a vehicle's components that occur out of warranty? If
so, how do they determine how much of the failure is due
to the oil and how much is due to normal wear that would
have occurred anyway?

6. The response I got from Amsoil about this matter was:

"We have never received a complaint of premature converter
failure." Well geez, I guess that proves that the API limits
on ZDDP were put in place for no reason at all!

So the absence of complaints proves that the high phosphorus
level doesn't do what the API says it does?!

Amsoil's response is inadequate for several reasons:

i. The whole reason that API put the ZDDP limit in place was
because too much phosphorus (a component of ZDDP) shortens
the life of the catalytic converter.

ii. Until an Amsoil rep let the real reason for
non-certification slip out, no one who was using Amsoil
would have the slightest reason to even suspect that an
early catalytic converter failure could be affected by
the type of motor oil.

iii. Until an Amsoil rep let the real reason for
non-certification slip out there were all sorts of
bizarre reasons for the non-certification being put
forward by Amsoil and its dealers. Now we know the
real reason, and IMVAIO Amsoil made a BIG mistake
in not just stating the real reason several years ago
and promoting its API certified line for vehicles with
catalytic converters. They looked extremely foolish by
posting all those bizarre and weak excuses.

7. Some people may actually decide that shortening the
life of the catalytic converter is worth the extra
wear protection gained from oils with a higher level
of ZDDP. These people can use the Amsoil or one of
the petroleum based oils that have a higher ZDDP level
and hence are not API certified.

I can't imagine the upside of Amsoil not simply doing some
product differentiation between their products for newer
vehicles and their products for jet skis, boats, and older
cars. They could turn the whole API thing to their advantage
and proclaim the benefit of the higher ZDDP level on their
non-XL-7500 line, and correctly claim that most of their
competitors don't have a synthetic with this extra level of
protection. And get this--it would actually be true! Of
course they don't have to say that there are plenty of
specialty non-synthetics without API certification that
also have the higher ZDDP levels.

I suspect that Redline synthetics fall into the same category
of "too much ZDDP for API certification" as Amsoil. But since
Redline does not sell via multi-level marketing they do not
have the reputation problem that Amsoil has and hence do not
invite scrutiny. I don't see any indication of API
certification on the Redline web site.