geronimo wrote:
> Its a b230FT 4-cyl turbo. Well, I got the car running again by timing
> it correctly. However, now the timing belt is not staying in the
> proper position on t The pulleys, it is moving forward over the front
> edge of the upper pulleys....I guess all of them, but that is the
> points that I can see. I can see this because the upper timing belt
> cover is not installed, only the lower one. So the belt is slowly
> being eaten away on the forward side by rubbing against something,
> possibly the crank sprocket. I have never had the crank pulley off to
> see how the crank sprocket looks....but shouldn't there be both a rear
> pulley guide and something on the forward side to keep the belt from
> going forward or rearward? For some reason its like there is nothing
> on the crank sprocket to keep it from going forward. I initally had
> just the tensioner spring tension, and noticed it was creeping forward
> on the pulleys/sprockets. So then I applied more tension above what
> the spring provides....a lot more....and locked the idler down. But it
> still is creeping forward. So now I will be ordering a timing belt
> kit with new tensioner. This is about the third time I adjusted
> timing on this car, and the first two times I didn't have this
> problem. NOw that it is back from that disatruous 3 week stay with the
> pro mechanic who couldn't get it running, it is doing this. Could they
> have done something like improper assembly of crank sprocket that is
> causing this? Or just my reassembly after timing technique that is
> causing it?
> The crank pulley is a bit wobbly...just a bit. by the way.
>
>
> thanks, Geronimo
There are 2 guides on the crank gear 1 in front & 1 in rear these keep
the belt riding true it sounds like the front 1 is missing causing the
timing belt to rub

--
" Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"
-- Albert Einstein

geronimo wrote:
> Well, I suppose I could fabricate one from a real big fender washer,
> and notch it for the index, if there is one....but isn't it cup
> shaped, rather than flat?
>
>
>

Don't you have a U-pull yard anywhere near you? I have a scrap B21F
motor so I might even have those guides if you need them, I think
they're the same as those on the B230.

geronimo wrote:
> I got the front end of motor apart. Found that both crank sprocket
> guides are there...there is not anything wrong with crank sprocket or
> anything, for that matter, that I could see, once old belt was
> removed. The only thing I noticed is that the damper pulley was very
> wobbly once the damper bolt was removed. I pulled it off, and find
> there is NO key installed in the damper key slot!
> How can the belt possibly move forward when both crank sprocket
> guides are installed?
> Now I have spent $75 for a gates timing belt kit, and if I install
> it, the same thing could happen again, as I have not found a cause for
> this.
>


Yikes, what comes in that kit? Last timing belt I bought was under $20
as I recall.

Alll that comes with the Gates kit is the idler/tensioner and belt. I
could have gotten a kit for a lot less, but was in a hurry, and
O'reilly was the only place in town that had one. Some kit! NO
tensioner spring. I do believe that if I take the old idler/tensioner
with the still-attached and compressed spring, to Autozone, that they
have a loaner spring compressor tool, so I can get it switched over to
the new idler/tensioner. Guess I have to stick with the old
tensioner spring. There is no such thing as a u-pull-it in South
Texas, unfortunately.
You wouldn't happen to know how much the longest span on the belt
(the upper right) is supposed to deflect in the middle, would you?
That way I could at least check approx tension, because I would
imagine the belt is more prone to wander if not up to proper tension
from a weak spring. Still baffled as to how the belt could be moving
off the front of the pulleys/sprockets when both crank sproket guides
are installed! obviously am missing something. Thanks, Geronimo




On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:38:03 GMT, James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>geronimo wrote:
>> I got the front end of motor apart. Found that both crank sprocket
>> guides are there...there is not anything wrong with crank sprocket or
>> anything, for that matter, that I could see, once old belt was
>> removed. The only thing I noticed is that the damper pulley was very
>> wobbly once the damper bolt was removed. I pulled it off, and find
>> there is NO key installed in the damper key slot!
>> How can the belt possibly move forward when both crank sprocket
>> guides are installed?
>> Now I have spent $75 for a gates timing belt kit, and if I install
>> it, the same thing could happen again, as I have not found a cause for
>> this.
>>
>
>
>Yikes, what comes in that kit? Last timing belt I bought was under $20
>as I recall.

geronimo wrote:
> Alll that comes with the Gates kit is the idler/tensioner and belt. I
> could have gotten a kit for a lot less, but was in a hurry, and
> O'reilly was the only place in town that had one. Some kit! NO
> tensioner spring. I do believe that if I take the old idler/tensioner
> with the still-attached and compressed spring, to Autozone, that they
> have a loaner spring compressor tool, so I can get it switched over to
> the new idler/tensioner. Guess I have to stick with the old
> tensioner spring. There is no such thing as a u-pull-it in South
> Texas, unfortunately.
> You wouldn't happen to know how much the longest span on the belt
> (the upper right) is supposed to deflect in the middle, would you?
> That way I could at least check approx tension, because I would
> imagine the belt is more prone to wander if not up to proper tension
> from a weak spring. Still baffled as to how the belt could be moving
> off the front of the pulleys/sprockets when both crank sproket guides
> are installed! obviously am missing something. Thanks, Geronimo
>
>
>

I've never had to mess with it. I put a new belt on with everything
lined up and the tensioner bolt loose, turn the engine over one full
turn by hand and torque down the tensioner and it's good to go.

I got a new damper pulley key fabricated....that problem solved. It
is unbelieavable that that mechanic was so incompetent that he
couldn't figure out that that the timing had slipped way off because
the damper pulley slipped due to no key installed! He was clueless as
to why he was setting the crank timing per specs (to zero mark) yet
the car would not run!

A guy at work who used to own a auto repair shop didn't have a
clue how to change over the tensioner spring to the new
idler/tensioner pulley. I took it to Autozone, they have no tool to
compress/hold the spring while it is changed over to new pulley. Took
to OReilly's and they say there is no special tool for this, you just
use a vise. Well, how are you going to get the spring removed with a
vise when one of the jaws of the vise would have to be pushing on the
other side of the plate on which the compressed spring is pushing?
You have to have something like a miniature gear puller, with two
claws, and a nut to turn on the other end of the compressor tool, to
further compress the spring, and later to release it after
re-installation.

Upon looking closer at the old idler/tensioner pulley assy, the
pulley is fine, but its mounting plate is a bit bent up, the bends in
the platform / plate the pulley is on should be 90 deg. bends.... but
they are more than 90 deg. The steel is much too thick to bend, so
it really has to be changed. Could be causing a misalignment. So I am
dead in the water for now. I guess I have to take to an auto garage
and get a mechanic to do it?

Thanks Geronimo


On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:06:06 GMT, James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>geronimo wrote:
>> Alll that comes with the Gates kit is the idler/tensioner and belt. I
>> could have gotten a kit for a lot less, but was in a hurry, and
>> O'reilly was the only place in town that had one. Some kit! NO
>> tensioner spring. I do believe that if I take the old idler/tensioner
>> with the still-attached and compressed spring, to Autozone, that they
>> have a loaner spring compressor tool, so I can get it switched over to
>> the new idler/tensioner. Guess I have to stick with the old
>> tensioner spring. There is no such thing as a u-pull-it in South
>> Texas, unfortunately.
>> You wouldn't happen to know how much the longest span on the belt
>> (the upper right) is supposed to deflect in the middle, would you?
>> That way I could at least check approx tension, because I would
>> imagine the belt is more prone to wander if not up to proper tension
>> from a weak spring. Still baffled as to how the belt could be moving
>> off the front of the pulleys/sprockets when both crank sproket guides
>> are installed! obviously am missing something. Thanks, Geronimo
>>
>>
>>
>
>I've never had to mess with it. I put a new belt on with everything
>lined up and the tensioner bolt loose, turn the engine over one full
>turn by hand and torque down the tensioner and it's good to go.

geronimo wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I got a new damper pulley key fabricated....that problem solved. It
> is unbelieavable that that mechanic was so incompetent that he
> couldn't figure out that that the timing had slipped way off because
> the damper pulley slipped due to no key installed! He was clueless as
> to why he was setting the crank timing per specs (to zero mark) yet
> the car would not run!
>
> A guy at work who used to own a auto repair shop didn't have a
> clue how to change over the tensioner spring to the new
> idler/tensioner pulley. I took it to Autozone, they have no tool to
> compress/hold the spring while it is changed over to new pulley. Took
> to OReilly's and they say there is no special tool for this, you just
> use a vise. Well, how are you going to get the spring removed with a
> vise when one of the jaws of the vise would have to be pushing on the
> other side of the plate on which the compressed spring is pushing?
> You have to have something like a miniature gear puller, with two
> claws, and a nut to turn on the other end of the compressor tool, to
> further compress the spring, and later to release it after
> re-installation.
>
> Upon looking closer at the old idler/tensioner pulley assy, the
> pulley is fine, but its mounting plate is a bit bent up, the bends in
> the platform / plate the pulley is on should be 90 deg. bends.... but
> they are more than 90 deg. The steel is much too thick to bend, so
> it really has to be changed. Could be causing a misalignment. So I am
> dead in the water for now. I guess I have to take to an auto garage
> and get a mechanic to do it?
>
> Thanks Geronimo
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:06:06 GMT, James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>geronimo wrote:
>>
>>>Alll that comes with the Gates kit is the idler/tensioner and belt. I
>>>could have gotten a kit for a lot less, but was in a hurry, and
>>>O'reilly was the only place in town that had one. Some kit! NO
>>>tensioner spring. I do believe that if I take the old idler/tensioner
>>>with the still-attached and compressed spring, to Autozone, that they
>>>have a loaner spring compressor tool, so I can get it switched over to
>>>the new idler/tensioner. Guess I have to stick with the old
>>>tensioner spring. There is no such thing as a u-pull-it in South
>>>Texas, unfortunately.
>>> You wouldn't happen to know how much the longest span on the belt
>>>(the upper right) is supposed to deflect in the middle, would you?
>>>That way I could at least check approx tension, because I would
>>>imagine the belt is more prone to wander if not up to proper tension
>>>from a weak spring. Still baffled as to how the belt could be moving
>>>off the front of the pulleys/sprockets when both crank sproket guides
>>>are installed! obviously am missing something. Thanks, Geronimo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I've never had to mess with it. I put a new belt on with everything
>>lined up and the tensioner bolt loose, turn the engine over one full
>>turn by hand and torque down the tensioner and it's good to go.
>
>


I'd just go to a wrecker and get a whole new tensioner, in years of
working on Volvos I've never had to replace one, I don't know how so
much stuff got trashed on that car, '92 sounds rather young to me, even
though when I think about it, it is 15 years old. I've never owned a car
that new though.