Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
pumps? What I mean, is there some sort of plug in (the cig lighter)
pump that can be put into a gas can, and a fuel hose run to the engine
for emergencies?

It seems these in tank pumps are notorious for failing whenever they
decide to die, stranding the driver. The old mechanical fuel pumps
never did this. They would begin leaking and alert the driver, but
one could always get home. Not to mention that a mechanical pump
could be easily changed almost anywhere in a half hour or less.
Unlike these damn in the tank pumps that require ripping out the gas
tank and god only knows what else.

Whoever decided that fuel pumps belong in the gas tank should have
been shot at birth or never conceived.

I recently bought a 91 GMC pickup truck with 350 engine and a
CARBURETOR. Yes, one of the last years they used a carburetor. I was
thrilled to find a truck with a carb. My last two vehicles (an Olds
car, and a Ford truck), both had fuel injection, and both stranded me
cuz of those damn in tank pumps. That Olds nearly caused my death
because of that goddamn pump, when it died in mid winter on a deserted
country road, in a blizzard and 30 below windchill, and about 2am.
There were no houses, anywhere. I walked about 2 miles, and was in
hypothermia when I came upon a barn full of cattle. Those cows saved
my life, because they were warm, and I had to stay in there until
someone arrived around 6am.

Anyhow, I bought this 91 GMC carb truck and discover the fuel pump is
in the tank. I am NOT pleased. I would have suspected that with a
carb it would have a conventional mechanical pump.

I am not going to freeze to death because of that damn pump. If I
must, I am going to rig a gas can with an external 12v electric fuel
pump that I can plug into my cig lighter, and a long enough fuel hose
to run from the passenger seat to the engine carb, and will saw the
fuel line NOW, so I can put a short piece of hose if I need to use
this emergency tank.

But, dont they make some sort of emergency tanks? How many people
will die because of those goddamn in tank pumps, before they change
that most stupid setup.

As a suggestion, if they MUST have in tank pumps, then have TWO pumps
and a warning alert that says the main pump died and it's running on
an auxilliary pump. I wonder if anyone at the auto factories are
bright enough to figure out the need for this? And, then how about
making an access panel so the pump can be changed without removing the
tank. But I suppose this is too much to ask from an engineer with at
least 4 years of college......

Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.

Thanks

Jim R

<jimrob230@invalid.com> wrote in message news:gms6j4dhnkc5cqerpeusk25qae43bnpvv0@4ax.com...

snip crazy talk.

> Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
> peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
> NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim R
--------

Don't like in tank fuel pumps do ya? LOL.

FYI, your screwed. Nearly all fuel pumps are in the tank now. It sucks on
trucks, because you either have to drop the tank (and not all the way, the fuel
line cant go that far), or remove the bed.

But summit and others sell frame mountable fuel pumps that can do the job.
Never seen it done before, but I'm sure you could do a google search and
see what others may have done.


HDS

Great idea
Pete
<jimrob230@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:gms6j4dhnkc5cqerpeusk25qae43bnpvv0@4ax.com...
> Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
> pumps? What I mean, is there some sort of plug in (the cig lighter)
> pump that can be put into a gas can, and a fuel hose run to the engine
> for emergencies?
>
> It seems these in tank pumps are notorious for failing whenever they
> decide to die, stranding the driver. The old mechanical fuel pumps
> never did this. They would begin leaking and alert the driver, but
> one could always get home. Not to mention that a mechanical pump
> could be easily changed almost anywhere in a half hour or less.
> Unlike these damn in the tank pumps that require ripping out the gas
> tank and god only knows what else.
>
> Whoever decided that fuel pumps belong in the gas tank should have
> been shot at birth or never conceived.
>
> I recently bought a 91 GMC pickup truck with 350 engine and a
> CARBURETOR. Yes, one of the last years they used a carburetor. I was
> thrilled to find a truck with a carb. My last two vehicles (an Olds
> car, and a Ford truck), both had fuel injection, and both stranded me
> cuz of those damn in tank pumps. That Olds nearly caused my death
> because of that goddamn pump, when it died in mid winter on a deserted
> country road, in a blizzard and 30 below windchill, and about 2am.
> There were no houses, anywhere. I walked about 2 miles, and was in
> hypothermia when I came upon a barn full of cattle. Those cows saved
> my life, because they were warm, and I had to stay in there until
> someone arrived around 6am.
>
> Anyhow, I bought this 91 GMC carb truck and discover the fuel pump is
> in the tank. I am NOT pleased. I would have suspected that with a
> carb it would have a conventional mechanical pump.
>
> I am not going to freeze to death because of that damn pump. If I
> must, I am going to rig a gas can with an external 12v electric fuel
> pump that I can plug into my cig lighter, and a long enough fuel hose
> to run from the passenger seat to the engine carb, and will saw the
> fuel line NOW, so I can put a short piece of hose if I need to use
> this emergency tank.
>
> But, dont they make some sort of emergency tanks? How many people
> will die because of those goddamn in tank pumps, before they change
> that most stupid setup.
>
> As a suggestion, if they MUST have in tank pumps, then have TWO pumps
> and a warning alert that says the main pump died and it's running on
> an auxilliary pump. I wonder if anyone at the auto factories are
> bright enough to figure out the need for this? And, then how about
> making an access panel so the pump can be changed without removing the
> tank. But I suppose this is too much to ask from an engineer with at
> least 4 years of college......
>
> Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
> peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
> NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim R

"HDS" <None@none.com> wrote in message news:jQMYk.3023> But summit and
others sell frame mountable fuel pumps that can do the job.
> Never seen it done before, but I'm sure you could do a google search and
> see what others may have done.

> HDS

A redundant pump of this type is certainly possible. The OP should stay
away from
cans of gas and external pumps, but something like you mention can certainly
be
"engineered"

In article <gms6j4dhnkc5cqerpeusk25qae43bnpvv0@4ax.com>,
jimrob230@invalid.com wrote:

> Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
> pumps? What I mean, is there some sort of plug in (the cig lighter)
> pump that can be put into a gas can, and a fuel hose run to the engine
> for emergencies?

You gonna carry all the necessary/specialty tools need to disconnect the
existing fuel line and connect your spare?
Not practical.

> It seems these in tank pumps are notorious for failing whenever they
> decide to die, stranding the driver.

Yes, they fail when they die, they die when they fail.

> The old mechanical fuel pumps
> never did this.

Absolutely untrue.

> They would begin leaking and alert the driver,

Or, they would begin leaking and fill the crankcase full of gasoline,
wiping out every bearing in the engine, totally unbeknownst to the
driver.

> but
> one could always get home.

Anecdotal.

> Not to mention that a mechanical pump
> could be easily changed almost anywhere in a half hour or less.

Again, untrue.

> Unlike these damn in the tank pumps that require ripping out the gas
> tank and god only knows what else.

Not all in-tank fuel pump replacement require removing the fuel tank.

> Whoever decided that fuel pumps belong in the gas tank should have
> been shot at birth or never conceived.

There are valid reasons for placing it there. Sadly, your convenience is
not one of them.

> I recently bought a 91 GMC pickup truck with 350 engine and a
> CARBURETOR.

Better double check that.

> Yes, one of the last years they used a carburetor.

GM C/K/R trucks with gasoline engines quit using carburetors 4 years
before that.

> I was
> thrilled to find a truck with a carb.

If it really is a carb, someone modified the truck and you've got
-those- issues to deal with now.

> My last two vehicles (an Olds
> car, and a Ford truck), both had fuel injection, and both stranded me
> cuz of those damn in tank pumps. That Olds nearly caused my death
> because of that goddamn pump, when it died in mid winter on a deserted
> country road, in a blizzard and 30 below windchill, and about 2am.
> There were no houses, anywhere. I walked about 2 miles, and was in
> hypothermia when I came upon a barn full of cattle. Those cows saved
> my life, because they were warm, and I had to stay in there until
> someone arrived around 6am.

Some candles and some blankets would have prevented that.

> Anyhow, I bought this 91 GMC carb truck and discover the fuel pump is
> in the tank. I am NOT pleased. I would have suspected that with a
> carb it would have a conventional mechanical pump.

It would have.

> I am not going to freeze to death because of that damn pump. If I
> must, I am going to rig a gas can with an external 12v electric fuel
> pump that I can plug into my cig lighter, and a long enough fuel hose
> to run from the passenger seat to the engine carb, and will saw the
> fuel line NOW, so I can put a short piece of hose if I need to use
> this emergency tank.

Don't forget to pack the NOMEX.

> But, dont they make some sort of emergency tanks?

NO. (well, sorta)

> How many people
> will die because of those goddamn in tank pumps, before they change
> that most stupid setup.

AFAIK, zero

> As a suggestion, if they MUST have in tank pumps, then have TWO pumps
> and a warning alert that says the main pump died and it's running on
> an auxilliary pump. I wonder if anyone at the auto factories are
> bright enough to figure out the need for this?

Actually, they did. It's called 'dual fuel tanks.'

> And, then how about
> making an access panel so the pump can be changed without removing the
> tank. But I suppose this is too much to ask from an engineer with at
> least 4 years of college......

Easy, just remount your tank rotated 90 degrees so the fuel pump module
is facing sideways instead of towards the top.

And, just to verify, please acknowledge that regarding the Oldsmobile
and Ford you had previous trouble(s) with, you did in fact have a spare
fuel pump at hand but your repairs were thwarted by the accessibility
issue.

> Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
> peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
> NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.

There are many vehicles with fuel pumps that are relatively easy to
access, failure to conduct the research necessary that would negate your
problem might indicate the source of the real stupidity.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:43:03 -0600, jimrob230@invalid.com wrote:

>Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
>pumps? What I mean, is there some sort of plug in (the cig lighter)
>pump that can be put into a gas can, and a fuel hose run to the engine
>for emergencies?
>
>It seems these in tank pumps are notorious for failing whenever they
>decide to die, stranding the driver. The old mechanical fuel pumps
>never did this.

Yea, right... Never? Not in my experience.

>They would begin leaking and alert the driver,

What, an idiot light on the dash? Mechanical pumps always leaked into
the crankcase, filled the oil pan with gasoline, often resulting in
major engine damange if the owner didn't realize what was happening.

>but
>one could always get home.

Read the above, again.

>Not to mention that a mechanical pump
>could be easily changed almost anywhere in a half hour or less.
>Unlike these damn in the tank pumps that require ripping out the gas
>tank and god only knows what else.
>
>Whoever decided that fuel pumps belong in the gas tank should have
>been shot at birth or never conceived.

Do you know *WHY* the pump is mounted there? Maybe research why this
was done, and you'd understand.

>
>...
>
>Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
>peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
>NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jim R

To each his own... I've found tank mounted pumps to be as reliable as
any non-tank mounted one. As to changing the pump, yes, they are a
PITA, but then again, most any service today is more difficult than it
was in the 1950s...

jimrob230@invalid.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
> pumps? What I mean, is there some sort of plug in (the cig lighter)
> pump that can be put into a gas can, and a fuel hose run to the engine
> for emergencies?
SNIP
>
> But, dont they make some sort of emergency tanks? How many people
> will die because of those goddamn in tank pumps, before they change
> that most stupid setup.
>
> As a suggestion, if they MUST have in tank pumps, then have TWO pumps
> and a warning alert that says the main pump died and it's running on
> an auxilliary pump. I wonder if anyone at the auto factories are
> bright enough to figure out the need for this? And, then how about
> making an access panel so the pump can be changed without removing the
> tank. But I suppose this is too much to ask from an engineer with at
> least 4 years of college......
>
> Sorry for bitchin' about this, but this is one of my biggest pet
> peeves about vehicles made since the late 80's / early 90's. This is
> NOT progress, this is pure stupidity.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim R

The problem with your idea is that many of the vehicles out there don't
have an easy way to implement it. On your 91 it would be simple. To feed
a carb all you would need is a cheap electric pump, a boat fuel tank and
the line.

However on vehicles with EFI you would need a lot of parts. You need the
high pressure pump, a fuel source, and the worst part, a way to bypass
the factory pump and lines. While you could connect the input line to
the fuel pressure test port easy enough, the return line would cause a
problem.

You would need a way to bypass the return back to your portable tank.
Could it be done. Yes. Would it be a practical item for the factory to
add to a vehicle, NOPE.
Consider that if you BUILD this system and something happened and it
caused damage YOU are going to be hung out to dry by the insurance company.

Could a second pump be added at the factory. Sure. However the reality
is that for every pump that you have heard or had fail there are 100
more that last all the way to the scrap yard.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-A476C3.08315701122008@news.mil.sbcglobal.net...
> In article <gms6j4dhnkc5cqerpeusk25qae43bnpvv0@4ax.com>,
> jimrob230@invalid.com wrote:

.. That Olds nearly caused my death
>> because of that goddamn pump, when it died in mid winter on a deserted
>> country road, in a blizzard and 30 below windchill, and about 2am.
>> There were no houses, anywhere. I walked about 2 miles, and was in
>> hypothermia when I came upon a barn full of cattle. Those cows saved
>> my life, because they were warm, and I had to stay in there until
>> someone arrived around 6am.
>
> Some candles and some blankets would have prevented that.

This is something that people who live in temperate climes do not fully
appreciate.

I have known of people getting lost between their parking places and their
houses,
and freezing to death...maybe a hundred metres between the two.

Once, I sent my car by train from western Norway to the Oslo area, and took
public
transportation out to the receiving site to pick up the car. Had to get off
the public
trans and walk nearly a mile. Even though I had good shoes and coat, I
began to
think that I was seriously going to die out there. I had badly
underestimated the
cold.

So I can understand the OP's worry. It can be a real problem. If your car
goes out
in remote areas, even blankets and candles may not be enough, but is a good
start.
A good cell phone is another, a "flight plan" is also handy, an arctic pack
in the trunk
in some regions is a life saver.

But having validated his fear, it would not be difficult to mount a second
external
fuel pump that could be activated under emergency situations. And there ARE
small
racing type (Moon) fuel tanks that could be adapted to an emergency system.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:31:57 -0600, aarcuda69062
<nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>In article <gms6j4dhnkc5cqerpeusk25qae43bnpvv0@4ax.com>,
> jimrob230@invalid.com wrote:
>

>
>> I recently bought a 91 GMC pickup truck with 350 engine and a
>> CARBURETOR.
>
>Better double check that.
>

Do we explain what TBI is? Naw, let's keep that one a secret! <bfg>

jimrob230@invalid.com turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> Does anyone know of a substitute for those damn "in the tank" fuel
> pumps?

I've heard you can hire illegal immigrants to suck out the fuel and put it
drop-by-drop into the engine.

Might just be a rumor tho...


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Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it. - Dee
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