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Discuss Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan in the rec.autos.makers.chrysler forum at Car Dealer Forums; <kmatheson@sisna.com> wrote in message news:1174498163.360204.198910@d57g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com... > On Mar 21, 10:16 am, "velobard" <pageol...@gmail.com> wrote: ...
  1. #1
    maxpower
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    <kmatheson@sisna.com> wrote in message
    news:1174498163.360204.198910@d57g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Mar 21, 10:16 am, "velobard" <pageol...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > I picked up a '93 Plymouth Grand Voyager only to learn I was
    > > subjecting myself to a mess with a Bendix-10 system that's acting up.
    > > I've been doing a little reading on it here and elsewhere over the
    > > past couple of days.
    > >
    > > The system is apparently leaking down somewhere because I can hear the
    > > pump motor cycle for a few seconds everytime I press on the brake
    > > pedal and occasionally on its own while I'm driving. The brake light
    > > is on and the ABS light is apparently burned out or removed. You can
    > > see tape residue where they used to have tape over the ABS light.
    > >
    > > First off, is there any way for me to determine if the leak is coming
    > > from the accumulator or the piston? Is there anywhere else the ABS
    > > system could be losing pressure? I know the pump and piston are
    > > covered under the lifetime recall warranty, but I'm willing to bet any
    > > dealer would want to blame the accumulator first since they can make
    > > some money on that part. Also, as I understand it, a dealer will
    > > charge the diagnostic fee for checking this out but they have to
    > > refund it if the only problem is related to the recall. This is a
    > > concern because the 2 dealers I called so far was $85-110 just to hook
    > > up their scan tool for codes.
    > >
    > > Also, I notice that the accumulator is virtually the same as the one
    > > on my '90 Olds. I'm retiring that car and the accumulator was replaced
    > > it in a few years ago. I'm tempted to try swapping it onto the minivan
    > > to see if that helps.
    > >
    > > I appreciate any advice anyone can offer. If worse comes to worse I'm
    > > considering following some info I found elsewhere and converting it to
    > > non-ABS. My main goal at the moment is to see if there's a way to
    > > locate the source of the pressure leak on my own, or at least to
    > > eliminate any specific sources.
    > >
    > > Dave

    >
    > There were many posts regarding ABS systems on this site back in the
    > early to mid-1990's
    >
    > There were one or more recalls on these early ABS systems.
    >
    > Hopefully, the previous owner(s) had them done. I would suggest
    > entering the last 8 digits of your VIN into the "owners" section on
    > Chryser's website, so see if there are any remaining recalls.
    >
    > Glenn, it seems like you addressed this topic just a few weeks ago,
    > and said that the accumulator was not covered under the recall.
    >
    > -KM
    >

    The accumulator is not covered

    Glenn





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  2. #2
    maxpower
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    <kmatheson@sisna.com> wrote in message
    news:1174498163.360204.198910@d57g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Mar 21, 10:16 am, "velobard" <pageol...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > I picked up a '93 Plymouth Grand Voyager only to learn I was
    > > subjecting myself to a mess with a Bendix-10 system that's acting up.
    > > I've been doing a little reading on it here and elsewhere over the
    > > past couple of days.
    > >
    > > The system is apparently leaking down somewhere because I can hear the
    > > pump motor cycle for a few seconds everytime I press on the brake
    > > pedal and occasionally on its own while I'm driving. The brake light
    > > is on and the ABS light is apparently burned out or removed. You can
    > > see tape residue where they used to have tape over the ABS light.


    What you are describing right now is a faulty accumulator. When the pump
    charges up the accumulator, it stores pressure of 2100 psi which should give
    you at least 3 to 4 pumps of the brake pedal before the pressure drops to
    1600 psi and acitvates the pump to recharge. If the accumulator is bad one
    pump of the pedal will drop the below 1600 psi , turnign on the pump and
    possibly the red ABS lite.. If it were the pump that were bad (and it could
    go out next because the accumulator is going to wear the pump out) the red
    lite would never go out because the pressure would not reach the specified
    pressure to turn it out.
    > >
    > > First off, is there any way for me to determine if the leak is coming
    > > from the accumulator or the piston? Is there anywhere else the ABS
    > > system could be losing pressure? I know the pump and piston are
    > > covered under the lifetime recall warranty, but I'm willing to bet any
    > > dealer would want to blame the accumulator first since they can make
    > > some money on that part. Also, as I understand it, a dealer will
    > > charge the diagnostic fee for checking this out but they have to
    > > refund it if the only problem is related to the recall. This is a
    > > concern because the 2 dealers I called so far was $85-110 just to hook
    > > up their scan tool for codes.


    Just from what you are telling me here . yes....im going to blame the
    accumulator due to the symptoms you describe
    Take it to an after market shop and have them try to diagnois it and see
    what they sell you. Then when they cant fix it watch how fast they blow you
    off to the dealer. And there is more to it then just hooking up a scan tool
    and getting fault codes. a special pressure gauge has to be connected to
    read the pressures of the pump and piston side of the Hydraulic assembly
    which includes depressurizing the system and remove the pressure side hose.
    > >
    > > Also, I notice that the accumulator is virtually the same as the one
    > > on my '90 Olds. I'm retiring that car and the accumulator was replaced
    > > it in a few years ago. I'm tempted to try swapping it onto the minivan
    > > to see if that helps.



    good luck with that

    > >
    > > I appreciate any advice anyone can offer. If worse comes to worse I'm
    > > considering following some info I found elsewhere and converting it to
    > > non-ABS. My main goal at the moment is to see if there's a way to
    > > locate the source of the pressure leak on my own, or at least to
    > > eliminate any specific sources.
    > >


    Dave, not a good vehicle to put alot of parts on for the brake system..Parts
    for this system are getting hard to find and Chrysler has made it almost
    impossible to get parts for this system and the ones they do have will cost
    you some ridiculous price. I beleive they want these cars going to the
    salvage yard so the recall will not bite them anymore. that accumulator i
    think is over $300, the dual function pressure switch that controls the
    pump was $53 and now I think is $175.
    > > Dave

    >
    > There were many posts regarding ABS systems on this site back in the
    > early to mid-1990's
    >
    > There were one or more recalls on these early ABS systems.
    >
    > Hopefully, the previous owner(s) had them done. I would suggest
    > entering the last 8 digits of your VIN into the "owners" section on
    > Chryser's website, so see if there are any remaining recalls.
    >
    > Glenn, it seems like you addressed this topic just a few weeks ago,
    > and said that the accumulator was not covered under the recall.
    >
    > -KM
    >




  3. #3
    maxpower
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    "velobard" <pageology@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1174512738.753925.174660@l77g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Mar 21, 4:24 pm, "maxpower" <damnnickn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > > Just from what you are telling me here . yes....im going to blame the
    > > accumulator due to the symptoms you describe
    > >
    > > Dave, not a good vehicle to put alot of parts on for the brake

    system..Parts
    > > for this system are getting hard to find and Chrysler has made it almost
    > > impossible to get parts for this system and the ones they do have will

    cost
    > > you some ridiculous price. I beleive they want these cars going to the
    > > salvage yard so the recall will not bite them anymore. that accumulator

    i
    > > think is over $300, the dual function pressure switch that controls the
    > > pump was $53 and now I think is $175.

    >
    > Thank you! I've decided that I'll try going to a pick & pull yard
    > tomorrow and take a shot (yes, I understand it's a crap shoot on these
    > things) at getting a good accumulator.
    >
    > I don't plan on sinking a bunch of money into this van and if I
    > determine that it's a money pit it I'll get rid of it. Thank goodness
    > I don't have much in it to begin with. My next contract job won't
    > start for a few weeks while I wait for a security clearance check, so
    > I have some time I can invest. I might as well use some of it to see
    > whether I can get this thing road-worthy. Perhaps I should also look
    > for another dual function pressure switch while I'm at the yard, since
    > it appears that's not covered under the warranty either. The only
    > manual I have is Haynes and it doesn't show that switch. Can you give
    > me some hints on locating it?
    >
    > Dave
    >
    >


    The dual function pressure switch is located on the very bottom of the
    hydraulic assembly. it has to be removed while the vehicle is in the air
    with a special socket, It has 3 wires going to it



  4. #4
    maxpower
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    "velobard" <pageology@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1174520639.731894.4710@e65g2000hsc.googlegrou ps.com...
    > On Mar 21, 7:29 pm, "maxpower" <damnnickn...@yahoo.com> wrote:>
    > > The dual function pressure switch is located on the very bottom of the
    > > hydraulic assembly. it has to be removed while the vehicle is in the air
    > > with a special socket, It has 3 wires going to it- Hide quoted text -
    > >
    > >

    > Well now, that does make things more interesting doesnt' it, LOL. From
    > the symptoms I've described, does it sound like this could be a
    > culprit in my situation? Regardless, I'm sure I won't have the
    > required socket in time for this particular trip to the junkyard. I
    > suppose if it looks like I'm going to need it I could yank the whole
    > master cylinder because it sounds like I'd get the switch along with
    > everything else.
    >
    > For tomorrow I'll just go in and pull an accumulator. It should be a
    > quick trip.
    >
    > I appreciate the help max.
    >
    > Dave
    >

    as I said, don't put alot of money in it, im sure the salvage yards aren't
    giving them away. if the unit is already off you can get the switch off

    Glenn



  5. #5
    Ted Mittelstaedt
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    "velobard" <pageology@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1174508943.927314.241470@y80g2000hsf.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Mar 21, 3:26 pm, "maxpower" <damnnickn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > The accumulator is not covered

    >
    > I understand that, I tried to communicate that in both my previous
    > posts. That is why I want to know if there's a way for me to determine
    > whether it's the accumulator or something else such as the piston
    > (which is covered).
    >


    If you are handy the smartest thing you can do is pull out all that ABS
    crap and make it a standard brake system. You should be able to get
    the parts from a wrecker. The Bendix-10 system is horrible I never
    heard one good word from any Chrysler mechanic about it - and when
    I was shopping for a used van several years ago my brother in law who
    is a certified mechanic for a Dodge dealer warned me not to touch one of
    those. And I myself am handy with tools.

    ABS only works in limited circumstances anyway. If your barreling
    down a road covered with ice or gravel ABS won't do squat. I've
    tested it under controlled conditions with my 95 van which has the
    ABS bendix 4 system. About the only thing it will do for you is help
    in rainy weather - and if you are speeding in the rain you probably
    deserve to smash up anyway.

    Ted



  6. #6
    Ted Mittelstaedt
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan


    "velobard" <pageology@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1174524805.969898.162640@n76g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
    > On Mar 21, 8:13 pm, "maxpower" <damnnickn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Just curious, what are the guidelines you see- Hide quoted text -
    > >

    >
    > I found this on Allpar.
    > http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.p...2&hl=bendix-10
    >


    Dave could you post these I do not have an allpar account and since it
    appears
    to be some sort of bulletin board forum those instructions probably will not
    last
    very long. If you post it here it will go into the google archives.

    Ted



  7. #7
    Bill Putney
    Guest

    Default Re: Fun and games with Bendix-10 ABS on '93 minivan

    velobard wrote:
    > On Mar 22, 12:54 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Dave could you post these I do not have an allpar account and since it
    >>appears
    >>to be some sort of bulletin board forum those instructions probably will not
    >>last
    >>very long. If you post it here it will go into the google archives.
    >>

    >
    > No problem. Special thanks go to Fabinator on Allpar. He posted these
    > in a couple of the Allpar forums, this one was from 1/30/07...


    Hah hah! That's stickin' it to the man! I love solutions like that.

    Bill Putney
    (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
    address with the letter 'x')

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