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Discuss Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story.... in the rec.autos.makers.honda forum at Car Dealer Forums; Keywords: Honda Civic LX 1999 D16Y7 Oxygen Sensor P0135 ODBII Holly smokes! Panic! The Check ...
  1. #1
    hobbes
    Guest

    Default Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story....

    Keywords: Honda Civic LX 1999 D16Y7 Oxygen Sensor P0135 ODBII

    Holly smokes! Panic! The Check Engine light is on. First time that
    happened, pulled into a petrol station and put in more oil. That did
    not solve the problem and made no difference. That was about a year
    ago. Since then I have learned to control my panic and be more cool ...
    "the name's Bond, James Bond."

    First time round, took the car to Honda. After $US 105 light was out
    no clue what was wrong. One month later, light on again. Bought an
    Actron CP9175 analyzer and have never looked back. The fault turned
    out to be a wiring rubbing against a belt. Re-clipped the wire and the
    light went out. Two years later when that Check Engine Light came on,
    I was neither shaken nor stirred.

    Driving home from work and that dam idiot light come .... Arrgghhh Check
    Engine Light. Ok. Cool. Think James Bond. Get home and connect up the
    analyzer. The scan tool diagnostic connector is just above your left
    leg shin when you are sitting in the driver's seat, it is on the wall
    up against the steering wheel overhang. The code that comes up is
    P0135 (with a zero not a "O"). This means "Primary heated Oxygen
    Sensor heater circuit fault". In the car this is the Oxygen Sensor
    uppermost before the catalytic converter. When you open the bonnet (or
    hood), it is the sensor uppermost before the catalytic converter.

    The Oxygen Sensor is connected to the ECM / PCM with a connector that
    sits on top of the engine. To disconnect this connector you need to
    pop the plastic clip on top. Then ease out gently the ECM / PCM
    connector side out. I found using a screw driver helped to ease it
    off. The other side of the connector is connected to the oxygen sensor
    and is attached to the engine block via a clip underneath. To detach
    this you need to reach under the clip near the front and lift up the
    release catch. Then ease this off.

    Looking at the connector to the oxygen sensor, with the Attach to
    Engine clip on the bottom, check the resistance between the bottom two
    pins with an electrical multimeter. It should be between 10 to 40
    ohms. In my case I had an open circuit. You also need to check for a
    short between either of these pins and the body of the oxygen sensor
    i.e. ground / battery negative terminal. If you have a short, then you
    need a new oxygen sensor.

    OK so it looks like I need a new oxygen sensor. Recliped the connector
    and set things back. Note you can drive the car even with the Primary
    oxygen sensor disconnected. In this case the PGM / ECM computer will
    use a default internal value. Your fuel consumption will be slightly
    worse. In my case I actually could not tell the difference.

    The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch BS13007 which I bought
    from AutoZone for $US 90. You can get these cheaper on the net at
    about $US 75 but I wanted the assurance that if it was not the right
    one, I could return it without too much hassle. The OEM one in the
    Honda is in fact a Denso Oxygen sensor. I went with Bosch mainly
    because it was the one in stock at the AutoZone shop. It comes with a
    1-year guarantee. The guy at AutoZone was actually pretty good. Check
    to make sure I had the right oxygen sensor and also recommended the
    right Oxygen Sensor ratchet tool.

    Tools you need are an Oxygen Sensor socket; this is a socket with a
    slit in it for the Oxygen Sensor wire. The one you need is the one
    with the 1/2 inch drive ratchet hole offset on the side. The ones with
    the 1/2 drive ratchet whole on top were too long to maneuver onto the
    Oxygen sensor due to the proximity of the radiator hoses. The other
    thing I bought was some PB Blaster oil penetrate to help loosen up
    bolts and a tube of high-temperature anti seize compound

    Back at home time to change the oxygen sensor while the engine was
    still warm-ish. There are lots of theories as to if a hot, warm or
    cold engine makes this easier. My take on it is you want the engine
    warmish, to hot and you fry yourself. And cold makes getting the
    sensor out of the exhaust manifold a bitch.

    I first disconnected the battery to make sure I did not short out any
    electronics and to make sure the car would not start on me. I then I
    disconnected the Oxygen sensor wire socked. Now take off the two bolts
    on the exhaust heat shield and remove that. You may need gloves to do
    this because it is sort of hot. Leather garden gloves work well. My
    bolts were sort of rusty. And the 12mm wrench socket stuck to the
    bolts a bit. A small drop of WD-40 or PB Blaster made this problem go
    away. Take off the heat shield and carefully maneuver it past the
    Oxygen sensor and the radiator hoses. It is tight but it will come
    out. Thread the Oxygen sensor wire past through the heat shield and
    place the heat shield to one side. You can now see the Oxygen Sensor.

    Spray some PB Blaster onto the sensor and exhaust manifold join. I
    think the PB helps loosen things up a bit, BUT also if you spray
    slighty more on the sensor, it cools the sensor more than the
    surrounding exhaust manifold and makes it contract faster and hence
    easier to get out. Place the socket wrench on the Oxygen sensor first.
    Then connect up the ratchet. The socket does not stick to the ratchet
    as with other sockets, and you will lose the socket in the depths of
    the engine .... like me the first time around if you try and balance it
    on the socket wrench. Then tug and try and loosen the sensor. Mine
    luckly came out easily. Other people I have read needed breaker bars
    and a lot more force.

    I then put extra anti seize onto the new sensor, taking care to keep
    it on the threads only and away from the business end of the sensor.
    The sensor did come with some anti-seize, but I added more and
    smoothed it over to ensure a nice even coating. Put the sensor in,
    making sure the tip does not touch anything oily. Re-assembly is the
    reverse of everything up to now.

    The bosch sensor wire did not come with the rubber grommet that helps
    secure the wire to engine clip and is longer in length. I clipped back
    the wire connector clip, and used a few cable ties to secure the wire
    away from the exhaust heat shield and radiator fan.

    Hooked up the battery ..... Hmmm moment of truth ..... Ignition stage II.
    Clear the codes with the Actron. Then hit the starter. Engine fires
    and the Check Engine Light remains off. Mission accomplished James.

    Hope this is helpful to some one ....

    Good luck. Best, Mike.





  2. #2
    Elle
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....

    Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.

    OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
    at https://www.automedicsupply.com


    "hobbes" <sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote
    > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch




  3. #3
    courseincivics
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....

    "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
    news:13oi11f4ioav90b@corp.supernews.com:

    > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.
    >
    > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
    > at https://www.automedicsupply.com
    >
    >
    > "hobbes" <sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote
    >> The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch



    Do they only sell 02 sensors? Whenever I go to the site, I get redirected
    to a page that says oxygensensors.com, although it appears to be owned by
    automedicsupply.com.


  4. #4
    Elle
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....

    "courseincivics" <courseincivics@jfdsjlsjz> wrote
    > "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
    >> OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your
    >> Civic
    >> at https://www.automedicsupply.com

    >
    > Do they only sell 02 sensors? Whenever I go to the site,
    > I get redirected
    > to a page that says oxygensensors.com, although it appears
    > to be owned by
    > automedicsupply.com.


    The automedicsupply.com site has been this way ever since I
    started using it a few years ago. I have always only been
    able to locate oxygen sensors at this site. Googling shows
    there's some evidence that, at least in the late 1990s, Auto
    Medic Supply sold other things. There is a contact phone
    number and email addy at the site, if you're looking for
    other things. OTOH many other online sites sell OEM Honda
    parts. See suggestions at
    http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html . In
    addition, online sales by local dealers has really picked up
    (with great prices for parts, for a change, by dealers). One
    can often find one's local dealer has an online site, call
    the parts department, and ask for the internet price.



  5. #5
    Elle
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....

    disheartened by the small number of fellow-students in them. When I
    commenced the study of man, I saw that these abstract sciences are not
    suited to man and that I was wandering farther from my own state in
    examining them than others in not knowing them. I pardoned their little
    knowledge; but I thought at least to find many companions in the study of
    man and that it was the true study which is suited to him. I have been
    deceived; still fewer study it than geometry. It is only from the want of
    knowing how to study this that we seek the other studies. But is it not that
    even here is not the knowledge which man should have and that for the
    purpose of happiness it is better for him not to know himself.?

    145. One thought alone occupies us; we cannot think of two things at the
    same time. This is lucky for us according to the world, not according to
    God.

    146. Man is obviously made to think. It is his whole dignity and his whole
    merit; and his whole duty is to think as he ought. Now, the order of thought
    is to begin with self, and with its Author and its end.

    Now, of what does the world think? Never of this, but of dancing, playing
    the lute, singing, making verses, running at the ring, etc., fighting,
    making oneself king, without thinking what it is to be a king and what to be
    a man.

    147. We do not content ourselves with the life we have in ourselves and in
    our own being; we desire to live an imaginary life in the mind of others,
    and for this purpose we endeavour to shine. We labour unceasingly to adorn
    and preserve this imaginary existence and neglect the real. And if we
    possess calmness, or generosity, or truthfulness, we are eager to make it
    known, so as to attach these virtues to that imaginary existence. We would
    rather separate them from ourselves to join them to it; and we would
    willingly be cowards in order to acquire the reputation of being brave. A
    great proof of the nothingness of our being, not to be satisfied with the
    one without the other, and to renounce t



  6. #6
    hobbes
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....

    On Jan 12, 1:17*pm, "Elle" <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
    > Bosch *O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.
    >
    > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
    > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com
    >
    > "hobbes" <sacstinkyti...@yahoo.com> wrote
    >
    >
    >
    > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Hi Elle,

    Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while now with
    the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that much of a
    car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type.

    Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages of the
    Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big differences.
    Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time around. Is
    the Denso also a Planar type?

    Best, Mike.

  7. #7
    Elle
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- The Story ....

    Hi Mike, what I recall from posts here is that (1) the Bosch
    O2 sensors seem not to send a very good signal to the ECU,
    ultimately seeming to throw off fuel efficiency; and (2) the
    Bosch's fail sooner. Re "planar O2 sensors," you know as
    much or more than I on them, and I would be googling.

    From reading here and my general reflections, I think it's
    okay to just wait until the Bosch dies, assuming the car
    seems to run fine, which you say yours does. Worrying about
    say, the effects on the Cat Converter seems overboard. But
    I'd go OEM next time for sure, especially since you can get
    one pretty cheap from the Auto Medic source.

    Bear in mind I am a cheapskate. In my adult life I have
    typically started by buying the cheap stuff. Some works
    fine. Others support the adage, "You get what you pay for."

    So where I now go OEM for my 91 Civic:
    --All electrical ignition parts (plugs, wires, dizzy cap and
    rotor, igniter, coil). Believe me, I have used non-OEM with
    all these except maybe the plugs, and the lifetimes and
    performance were worse.
    --Timing belt replacement parts (belt, water pump,
    tensioner, crank and cam shaft seals)
    --Alternators (but would go with rebuilt OEM ones, assuming
    a brush replacement did not work)
    --Most anything electrical, especially the O2 sensor

    Non-OEM:
    --Air filter
    --Fuel filter
    --Anti-freeeze (will only use orange Havoline though)
    --Radiator, from reading here, aftermarket appears to be
    fine
    --Alternator and power steering belts (dunno if non-OEM is
    wise, but so far, so good)

    "hobbes" <sacstinkytiger@yahoo.com> wrote
    On Jan 12, 1:17 pm, "Elle"
    <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
    > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.
    >
    > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
    > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com
    >
    > "hobbes" <sacstinkyti...@yahoo.com> wrote
    >
    >
    >
    > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted
    > > text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    Hi Elle,

    Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while
    now with
    the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that
    much of a
    car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type.

    Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages
    of the
    Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big
    differences.
    Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time
    around. Is
    the Denso also a Planar type?

    Best, Mike.



  8. #8
    hobbes
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....

    On Jan 15, 11:43*am, "Elle" <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net>
    wrote:
    > Hi Mike, what I recall from posts here is that (1) the Bosch
    > O2 sensors seem not to send a very good signal to the ECU,
    > ultimately seeming to throw off fuel efficiency; and (2) the
    > Bosch's fail sooner. Re "planar O2 sensors," you know as
    > much or more than I on them, and I would be googling.
    >
    > From reading here and my general reflections, I think it's
    > okay to just wait until the Bosch dies, assuming the car
    > seems to run fine, which you say yours does. Worrying about
    > say, the effects on the Cat Converter seems overboard. But
    > I'd go OEM next time for sure, especially since you can get
    > one pretty cheap from the Auto Medic source.
    >
    > Bear in mind I am a cheapskate. In my adult life I have
    > typically started by buying the cheap stuff. Some works
    > fine. Others support the adage, "You get what you pay for."
    >
    > So where I now go OEM for my 91 Civic:
    > --All electrical ignition parts (plugs, wires, dizzy cap and
    > rotor, igniter, coil). Believe me, I have used non-OEM with
    > all these except maybe the plugs, and the lifetimes and
    > performance were worse.
    > --Timing belt replacement parts (belt, water pump,
    > tensioner, crank and cam shaft seals)
    > --Alternators (but would go with rebuilt OEM ones, assuming
    > a brush replacement did not work)
    > --Most anything electrical, especially the O2 sensor
    >
    > Non-OEM:
    > --Air filter
    > --Fuel filter
    > --Anti-freeeze (will only use orange Havoline though)
    > --Radiator, from reading here, aftermarket appears to be
    > fine
    > --Alternator and power steering belts (dunno if non-OEM is
    > wise, but so far, so good)
    >
    > "hobbes" <sacstinkyti...@yahoo.com> wrote
    > On Jan 12, 1:17 pm, "Elle"
    >
    > <honda.lion...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
    > > Bosch O2 sensors are bad Jujubes, grasshopper.

    >
    > > OEM Denso is available for around $70 total for your Civic
    > > athttps://www.automedicsupply.com

    >
    > > "hobbes" <sacstinkyti...@yahoo.com> wrote

    >
    > > > The oxygen sensor I got hold of was a Bosch- Hide quoted
    > > > text -

    >
    > > - Show quoted text -

    >
    > Hi Elle,
    >
    > Thanks for the tip. I have been driving around for a while
    > now with
    > the Bosch one. It seems O.K. ... then again I am not that
    > much of a
    > car expert. I think my one is the Planar Oxygen sensor type.
    >
    > Just as a matter of interest, what are the main advantages
    > of the
    > Denso o2 sensors when compared with Bosch? Are there big
    > differences.
    > Maybe when the Bosch breaks I will get a Denso next time
    > around. Is
    > the Denso also a Planar type?
    >
    > Best, Mike.


    Hi Elle,

    Thanks for the information. Will see how far I get. I also found out
    some interesting stuff about Oxygen Sensors. And I think I know why
    people buying non OEM ones are having issues.

    In a nutshell an Oxygen Sensor has a certain sensitivity which is
    related to:

    1) The Spinell layer microporosity. Ths Spninell layer is a protection
    layer sprayed onto the Zicronia to protect it. The ticker the layer
    the more protection, the lower the sensitivity
    2) The number of slits on the outer casing. More holes and slits, the
    more exposed the sensor is, and hence you get more response voltage.
    But it degrades faster.

    Then the sensitivity needed is related to the distance of the sensor
    to the cyliners. So one that is position futher away needs to be more
    sensitive. And that distance is related to the velocity and
    temperature of the exhaust. If you have a turbo, high heat and fast
    exhaust, that sensor needs to be more protected and further away from
    the cylinders.

    So in a nutshell it is important to get the right Sensor for your car.
    I think it is better to stay away from "Universal" sensors, and get
    one which is within the OEM specs, be it a Bosch, Denso etc. That will
    have the right number of holes / slits and Spinell layer coating for
    (a) big enough voltage output to the ECM and (b) effective use
    longevity. I.E. You need to look very carefully at all the Oxygen
    Sensors and pick one which is OEM replacement type for your car.

    Here is a link I found which I think is rather good on this topic.

    http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/may98/techtips.htm

    It also mentions that the ECM compensates for the Spinell layer
    degredation as time goes by. So it sort of expects the Oxygen Snesor
    to degrade, and voltage output to fall. It compensates for this by
    changing the monitoring pulse with frequency. So I guess it is
    important to get an O2 Sensor with the same degradation profile as the
    ECM is expecting.

    O2 Sensors also come in various types. The first ones where (a)
    unheated thimble types. Then came (b) heated thimble types and now (c)
    heated planar types. 50% of all cars have now the Planar type. Heating
    the O2 sensor means it gets to operating temperature faster, and stays
    at that temperature even if your engine is idling. The Planar ones get
    to that temp in about 12 seconds. Thimbles ones in about 40 seconds.

    The latest (s) Wide-Band Planar Oxygen sensors have a small gas pump.
    This allows them to send a "This much petrol" signal rather than a two
    level only LEAN or RICH signal.

    Warmest regards, Mike.


  9. #9
    Jeffrey D.
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....

    hobbes, just a clarification.

    When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have
    trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator
    was really hard to push making you to stop???

    I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed
    on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes
    to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the
    car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights
    flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum...

    So this is also an O2 sensor failure???

    thanks!!!

    JD




  10. #10
    hobbes
    Guest

    Default Re: Honda Civic 1999, P0135, Oxygen Sensor Change, D16Y7 --- TheStory ....

    Hi Jeffery,

    I was reading some of your posts about your overheating engine, sorry
    to learn you are having some much trouble. I am afraid I am not an
    expert in cars and am sort of learning as I go along .....

    Oxygen Sensors are more to do with emissions than overheating engines.
    If a sensor fails it usually fails safe. Say you cut all the wires to
    the sensor, the engine will still run because the ECM car computer
    uses a default value and keeps your car running. Your catalytic
    converter may suffer a bit as will your miles per gallon petrol usage,
    but it is usually O.K. to drive around for a few days until you can
    bring the car to a repair place.

    The fact that your battery light came on and the oil presure light I
    think means your engine stopped running. This means the servo
    assistance on the brakes also is not there. Your foot brakes will
    work, but they are much harder to push because there is no engine to
    help apply preasure. Likewise you may have found the steering also
    harder to turn the wheel. Again the power assistance to the steering
    may also have been lost.

    I think your temperature gauge is not lying and there is also a high
    temp warning light and I did not see you mentioning that coming on. So
    I think your engine did not overheat in this instance.

    Hope you can get your puppy fixed up OK.

    Warmest regards, Mike.








    On Jan 15, 6:45*pm, "Jeffrey D." <jeffrey.t.dell...@gmail.com> wrote:
    > hobbes, just a clarification.
    >
    > When the check engine light turned on or flashed on, did you have
    > trouble working on the brakes? I mean were the breaks and accelerator
    > was really hard to push making you to stop???
    >
    > I had the same problem - the oil pressure and battery lights flashed
    > on while i was driving and it was too difficult to push for the brakes
    > to the floor and I used the handbreak instead to stop the
    > car...somebody told me it was due to overheating that's why the lights
    > flashed. But i did not see the temp gauge moving up to the maximum...
    >
    > So this is also an O2 sensor failure???
    >



    > thanks!!!
    >
    > JD



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